[Ansteorra] History/Enculturation/Cliquishness....

Wed Apr 24 15:31:25 PDT 2002

Avery-
    You have hit one of my hot buttons. I have long believed that some of us
need an attitude adjustment. Gentlemen (or other able-bodied folks) should
not have to be afraid to offer.  Perhaps part of the problem is that ladies
(or others who may be or appear to be in need of assistance) have not been
taught how to respond. It can be uncomfortable when you are used to just
handling things to suddenly have your only responsbility be to just act
nice.
    As a helpless lady, I often find myself in need of assistance.  When I
look about, I see gentlemen preparing for the lists, or packing up their
armor, or teaching new fighters, or involved in a discussion with an
officer/autocrat/Crown, or running errands for the cook, or... the list is
endless.  The point is, it is not reasonable to expect an offer. If they
don't offer, please assume it's because they are busy.  I can't tell you how
many times I have looked about for help, found no one available, picked up
my load and had offers of help before taking 3 steps.  In fact, I have found
that not demanding help is the best way to get it.  If it doesn't happen, I
don't get hurt because I did not expect it.
    People who expect to not have to carry their own things, become
beligerent when an offer does not come quickly enough, and treat those who
offer as their personal servants drive me nuts. No where in our rules does
it say that you should never have to carry your own chair, or set your own
camp, or what have you. Generally, we have so many helpful people that you
don't have to, but sometimes they are busy being helpful somewhere else.  We
have to take special care of these helpful people, by expressing our thanks
when they do help, by being wise about when to accept help (thank you so for
the offer, but I believe Lady Soandso is in far more need than I), and
never, ever being rude in accepting or declining.
    If you want able-bodied folks to offer assistance, then you should
encourage it at every turn.  It is our responsibility as ladies to be
gracious, even if we can do it our selves.  I am often reminded of a 3 year
old stamping her foot and saying, "I can do it" when an offer is declined.
This does not always mean accepting what is offered, although that is
usually the correct response.  We must at least be kind if we refuse. No one
will keep offering if they are consistently rebuffed.
      An offer for help is a very special gift.  People don't offer because
they think they are stronger or smarter or faster than us, but because they
believe in courtesy. We should treasure these gifts.  They allow us to step
out of our mundane roles for a moment.  And all we have to do is behave with
a modicum of courtesy to return the gift.
Rebekah
joining Pendaran by the fire.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Hertzberg" <s_hertzberg at hotmail.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] History/Enculturation/Cliquishness....

I am sorry, but the statements below offend me.

I have seen MANY examples of people, myself included, bending over backwards
at almost every event I go to to help people.  I usually hit about 2-3
events a month, so it is not like I don't see much of what is going on.  If
someone is in need and either asks NICELY, or if I spot someone that needs a
bit of help, I will offer.  VERY rarely does someone not get help.

What ticks me off is that I seem to have run into number of people who seem
to think it is there right to have me serve them.  It is NOT.  I have seen
"ladies" stand in the middle of a hall and loudly proclaim "what low
straights have we come to when a lady will not have a gentleman offer to
carry things for her".  Pardon my language, but bullshit.  Standing and
expecting help without asking is a crock.  People are not mind readers.

I offer my service to help as a gift.  It is my pleasure to help others.  It
is my privilidge to do so.

To EXPECT people to do so is an insult to the service that they have
offered.

Avery Shaw (sitting here in my asbestos underoos)
Cadet to Don Aubrey de Baudricourt
Apprentice to Master Iolo Fitzowen
but I will stand by my words myself, thank you very much

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Keyna [mailto:keyna at hot.rr.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:47 PM
>To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] History/Enculturation/Cliquishness....
>
>
>Ya know it sorta looks like chivalry is slowly dying to me as well.
>Keyna
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michele Hoermann" <ladyjutta at earthlink.net>
>To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] History/Enculturation/Cliquishness....
>
>
> > And may I add in this bit a few ladies and I have noticed....
> > What ever happened to the time when a lady could not walk 3 feet
>carrying
> > something heavy or bulky (or anything for that matter) without a lord
>coming
> > out of nowhere to pluck these things from your arms and assist you to
>your
> > destination. Be it just 2 more feet away or clear across the site. I
>know
> > this time was not THAT long ago. Yet, I have had many men, including
>Knights
> > and Dons, walk right by a lady with her arms full and not even take
>notice.
> > Please tell me that chivalry is not dead in the SCA!!
> > Lady Jutta
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pam Kendrick" <pkendrick at houston.rr.com>
> > To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:11 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] History/Enculturation/Cliquishness....
> >
> >
> > > I hate to say this, but here goes.......................
> > >
> > > Last year at Star Gate's Baronial I could not even get one of four
>knights
> > > to help me lift a heavy cooler off a table and onto the floor, though
>I
> > > asked several times for assistance.
> > >
> > > They were MUCH too busy talking about how to properly hit an opponent.
>I
> > > have since stopped asking.
> > >
> > > Setting up camp alone, with or without children, has become the norm
> > rather
> > > than the exception.
> > >
> > > Damask
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ansteorra-admin at ansteorra.org
> > > [mailto:ansteorra-admin at ansteorra.org]On Behalf Of DonnelShaw at aol.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:40 PM
> > > To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] History/Enculturation/Clickishness....
> > >
> > >
> > > I know personally I can no longer set up a camp by myself. I don't
>have
> > the
> > > strength. But I don't seem to get the help I use to get. Since I have
> > > children with me I tend to be stuck looking for someone and
>apologizing
> > to
> > > them. My solution has been an RV. But that does not cover it at a lot
>of
> > > events. Thus I tend to day trip a lot of times. I use to brag that I
>could
> > > always find help to set up my tent. Now that is not the case. I know
>there
> > > are other women who travel by them selves with children that have
>voiced
> > > similar. Can I see any up lifted hands willing to help when needed
>women
> > > with
> > > children?
> > > Ly Maili Donnel MacGregor
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ansteorra mailing list
> > > Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> > > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ansteorra mailing list
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra mailing list
> > Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
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>
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"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they
are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me, I would take him
kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet retired spot and
kill him."
            ~ Mark Twain

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