[Ansteorra] RE: Ansteorra digest, Ballista Safety
Tump Laird
tlaird at satx.rr.com
Thu Mar 21 09:53:42 PST 2002
I was present for the authorization firing of all the siege weapons, as well
a running a ballista crew in both fort battles. NONE of the guns exceeded
the maximum range allowed. Most hit at about 60 yards with one or two
hitting at about 70. I did witness an occasional bolt that came close to
the spectators. This did not happen because of the gun or their crews, but
by spectators violating the marked field. As battles drag on, and their are
more dead fighters hanging out inside the impact area, the borders get
blurred, and spectators start to mingle with the fighters.
Siege weapons by design have to fire over the walls. We are attempting to
recreate medieval combat with a high level of safety, but there is a risk
that is assumed by both combatants and non-combatants. A properly armored
fighter will not be injured by a Bolt or arrow. Spectators have the
responsibility to remain behind the boundaries set by the marshals.
I would hate to see a knee jerk reaction against siege weapons or archery
just because some spectators can't stay off the field. If there was an
instance of a bolt traveling into a crowd that was behind the safety lines,
simply call hold and move the boundary back. Add a few more marshals on the
perimeter with strict enforcement, and the problem is solved.
Finally, few people in this group have any knowledge of the facts involving
the denial of re-authorization. I hope that an incident that occurred
several years ago will not have a negative impact on combat archery or siege
weapons today.
Lord Botolf The Dane
Knight Marshal
Bjornsborg
-----Original Message-----
From: ansteorra-admin at ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-admin at ansteorra.org]On Behalf Of
ansteorra-request at ansteorra.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:51 PM
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: Ansteorra digest, Vol 1 #394 - 15 msgs
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Today's Topics:
1. Found at Gulf Wars (DAFPIG at aol.com)
2. Looking for... (Michelle Hanson)
3. Re: Gulf War Rapier Kudos (J.G. Bretz)
4. Re: Gulf War Rapier Kudos (J.G. Bretz)
5. (no subject) (Duncan MacNamara)
6. Duncan's web site. (Brian du Val)
7. Re: Mini Touny at Ravens Fort (Terri and Michael Busa)
8. Crown Tournament - Last Chance - Last Reminder (HL Kainin Tepesa)
9. Archery, ballista safety at Gulf Wars (Harris Mark.S-rsve60)
10. RE: Archery, ballista safety at Gulf Wars (Mauer, Eric)
11. Photos from Gulf Wars XI and Candelmas (Armand Dragonetti)
12. Re: Gulf War Rapier Kudos (Jesus Cavazos)
13. One More Gulf War Rapier Kudo (James Crouchet)
14. Re: Gulf War Rapier Kudos (James Crouchet)
15. Re: Mini Touny at Ravens Fort (Watson Jeffrey J)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: DAFPIG at aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:41:59 EST
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Ansteorra] Found at Gulf Wars
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Greetings all,
When we packed up our list field pavillion Saturday evening there was 1
left
handed guantlet and a spear left. Please contact us if these belong to you.
Thanks
Daffydd and Octavia
--__--__--
Message: 2
From: "Michelle Hanson" <bmhanson at airmail.net>
To: <ansteorra-announce at ansteorra.org>
Cc: <dfw-announce at ansteorra.org>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:28:13 -0600
Subject: [Ansteorra] Looking for...
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Will the following people please contact the event stewards for Warlord
XXIX?
Mistress Rona
Viscount Alexander
Master Darius of the Bells
HE Allyson (or the head of the Amazons)
Brother Kris
Event Stewards:
Ly Margarite McBridin (Michelle Hanson)
bmhanson at airmail.net
972-245-5692
Ly Liadan Bregh (Karen Cleek)
kkleek at netscape.net
972-680-1689
--
--__--__--
Message: 3
From: "J.G. Bretz" <b3zsgirl at yahoo.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf War Rapier Kudos
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:06:58 -0600
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Not to witness his falsehoods on Lady Rapier.
BTW! I have not gotten any email from Lady Rapier in a week!!!!!
__________________________
HL Beatrice di Palermo
Seer to the nobility of since 1492
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Hertzberg" <s_hertzberg at hotmail.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf War Rapier Kudos
> Dore wrote many words that were quite well stated...I snipped a bunch:
>
> >Kudos to Avery, Gwenneth and Simone who held the end of the Ansteorran
line
> >in the field battle so my unit could execute our flanking manoeuvre. You
> >guys are
> >heros and champions in my book
>
> Thank you very much. I was rather concerned about getting hit from
> behind...then realized your H unit was behind me and I was not so nearly
> concerned...;).
>
> One correction, though. Simone fought as the Coastal Commander. The
> redheads with me were Gwenneth and Ari. And they were an absolute ROCK
that
> made it very easy to hold our position.
>
> Again, thank you for your words...and your deeds that day.
>
> Avery Shaw
> Aubrey's
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
--__--__--
Message: 4
From: "J.G. Bretz" <b3zsgirl at yahoo.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf War Rapier Kudos
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:22:17 -0600
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Sorry..that was to have been a private post
__________________________
HL Beatrice di Palermo
Seer to the nobility of since 1492
----- Original Message -----
From: "J.G. Bretz" <b3zsgirl at yahoo.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf War Rapier Kudos
> Not to witness his falsehoods on Lady Rapier.
>
> BTW! I have not gotten any email from Lady Rapier in a week!!!!!
> __________________________
> HL Beatrice di Palermo
> Seer to the nobility of since 1492
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Hertzberg" <s_hertzberg at hotmail.com>
> To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf War Rapier Kudos
>
>
> > Dore wrote many words that were quite well stated...I snipped a bunch:
> >
> > >Kudos to Avery, Gwenneth and Simone who held the end of the Ansteorran
> line
> > >in the field battle so my unit could execute our flanking manoeuvre.
You
> > >guys are
> > >heros and champions in my book
> >
> > Thank you very much. I was rather concerned about getting hit from
> > behind...then realized your H unit was behind me and I was not so nearly
> > concerned...;).
> >
> > One correction, though. Simone fought as the Coastal Commander. The
> > redheads with me were Gwenneth and Ari. And they were an absolute ROCK
> that
> > made it very easy to hold our position.
> >
> > Again, thank you for your words...and your deeds that day.
> >
> > Avery Shaw
> > Aubrey's
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra mailing list
> > Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
--__--__--
Message: 5
From: "Duncan MacNamara" <duncan_macnamara at hotmail.com>
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Cc: ansteorra-announce at ansteorra.org, ldranger69 at yahoo.com,
primordialfear at yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:50:03 -0600
Subject: [Ansteorra] (no subject)
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
To all whom it may concern,
I have my Gulf War Picture website mostly finished. Here is a link to the
page.
http://www.geocities.com/avalonarmory/Gulfwarpics.html
In service to the Dream,
Duncan Mac Namara
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
--__--__--
Message: 6
From: "Brian du Val" <cobalt60 at lcc.net>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:49:02 -0600
Subject: [Ansteorra] Duncan's web site.
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
The site not up yet.
To all whom it may concern,
I have my Gulf War Picture website mostly finished. Here is a link to the
page.
http://www.geocities.com/avalonarmory/Gulfwarpics.html
In service to the Dream,
Duncan Mac Namara
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
_______________________________________________
Ansteorra mailing list
Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
--__--__--
Message: 7
From: "Terri and Michael Busa" <busa at texed.net>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Mini Touny at Ravens Fort
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:50:44 -0600
Organization: Flex.net
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Well boy bring them smoke wagons on .
Balda
----- Original Message -----
From: <stdjan19 at unxmail.shsu.edu>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Mini Touny at Ravens Fort
> Hey Balda ill be there to thrown down on sunday. should be a good
> time as usual.
>
> Alexander
>
> (Justin)
>
>
>
>
> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> > --
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > To those that want some. There will be a mini-tourney held at the
> gazebo in Huntsville
> Texas
> > on March 24 2002 at 2pm The mini-tourney will be held in a bear pit
> fashion.
> >
> > All who come to fight must have a fighter card that is current or
> be willing to fill out
> and sign a release form, also please bring your membership card.
> Isobail will be creating
> a database of this information.
> >
> > So if you want some come and get it. I'll try to have plenty for
> every one.
> >
> > Lord Balda The Hornswoggled
> > Of Clan Cadhlafitheach
> > Knight Marshal of Ravens Fort
> > --
> > [ pushpins and paper clips left border.gif of type image/gif
> deleted ]
> > --
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra mailing list
> > Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
>
--__--__--
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:52:00 -0600
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
From: HL Kainin Tepesa <kainin at copycraft.com>
Subject: [Ansteorra] Crown Tournament - Last Chance - Last Reminder
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
I will be away from my email after 6:00 pm Thursday 3/21/02, get your
feast and pavilion reservations in before then.
There are only 80 feast spots left, if you have not yet reserved
email me today.
Contact me if you want to set up a pavilion around the list field I
will be reserving space, everything else is first come first served.
VERY IMPORTANT: Fighters do not forget that their Majesties have
requested you bring your honor shields. Please leave the shields at
gate and we will have them ready to display when the list starts.
Armour inspection is scheduled to start at 8:00 am on Saturday with
the Order of Precedence procession to begin at 9:00 am.
Artisans don't forget there is a popular vote A&S competition in the
feast hall on Saturday. Everyone remember to stop by and vote.
Everyone bring lots of banners and displays of heraldry, their
Majesties want a bright and glorious field.
Merchants space is still available, email me if you wish to set up at Crown.
I am afraid that due to current city issues no pets will be allowed at
Crown.
----------------------------
Go to http://www.bonwicke.org/crown.htm for map and hotel information.
Date: March 22-24, 2002
Site: Comanche Trail Park, in Big Spring, Texas in and around the
Dora Roberts Center. There is plenty of room for camping, and hotels
in close proximity. The site opens 3:00 pm, Friday, and closes at
noon on Sunday.
Site Fee: $10.00
Children 6-12: $5.00
Children 5 and under: Free
Family Cap: $30.00
Feast Fee: $6.00
Limited to 200 people
Contact Steward for Reservations
Please make checks payable to: SCA, Inc. - Barony of Bonwicke
Steward: Honorable Lord Kainin Tepesa - Wes Hanna
5436 31st, Lubbock, TX 79407 * 806-799-6630 * seneschal at bonwicke.org
Minors must be accompanied by parent or legal guardian. They may also
attend with a 21-year old or older adult with a signed and notarized
Minor Event Waiver Form from the parents.
*Please forgive any multiple postings.
--__--__--
Message: 9
From: "Harris Mark.S-rsve60" <Mark.s.Harris at motorola.com>
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org,
"'bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org'"
<bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:31:47 -0700
Subject: [Ansteorra] Archery, ballista safety at Gulf Wars
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Dore said:
> Another caveat: As it was we archers often had to wait until another
> archer fired and moved before we had an unobstructed view out the
> window or whatever. So if there are that many more archers, many will
> need to fire on targets they cannot see. Thus they will also need
> spotters. In fact, spotters would have been very handy even as it was.
And later in another message Robin said:
>I overheard some war observers complaining that our ballista shot too far -
>over the enemy and into the non-armored observers. Apparently people in
>pavillions were dodging bolts.
I find it rather ironic that the Marshallete is now allowing ballistas
and archers to shoot blindly into locations they can not see.
When I was denied re-authorization on my combat archery several years
ago by Tuh Tahl, as Bryn Gwlad Archery Marshall, I was told it was
because it was said that folks were afraid I would be unable to
distinguish a marshal or spectator from an armored combatant. No matter
that I didn't shoot towards the spectators and tended to shoot into a
crowd of combatants, not trying to pick off individuals standing off by
themselves not carrying shields or weapons. In addition with the combat
legal crossbow, I was shooting at medium range targets rather than at
distant targets, since the bow was more accurate at that range. At
that range the targets were even more recognisable.
I think the people, apparently folks with political pull as Tuh Tahl
didn't want to oppose them, who demanded that I not be allowed to
shoot combat archery ought to sit back and consider that if they
were that concerned about a possible mis-shot then, why are they not
concerned now with archers, and particularly ballista crews, shooting
blindly at targets they cannot see and at best are using second or
third hand reports from observers which can easily get garbled in
the noise and pressure of battle.
In my case I could, and did, take precautions so that I was only
shooting at combatants. No, such precautions can't be guarenteed
to make things 100 percent safe. But allowing folks to blindly
shoot over a wall they can't see through or at best with a
spotter who can at best give general directions, is much less
uncertain than the precautions I was taking.
Because of this episode I quit SCA combat archery and armored
combat, so this now has little effect upon me. However, I think
some folks ought to reconsider why they can oppose what they feel
are unsafe practices when it affects only one person's playing, but
have no problem allowing, even encouraging, similar unsafe practices
when it involves a group of folks.
THLord Stefan li Rous
Barony of Bryn Gwlad
stefan at texas.net
--__--__--
Message: 10
From: "Mauer, Eric" <eric.mauer at attws.com>
To: "'ansteorra at ansteorra.org'" <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Archery, ballista safety at Gulf Wars
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:56:13 -0600
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
replied privately
Tuhtahl
from exile
(guess I didn't have *enough* "political pull")
Eric Mauer
tuhtahl at moritu.net
" Yeah, they've come to kill the rooster, but he ain't gonna die..."
-Alice In Chains
Mark Harris whines:
<snip>
When I was denied re-authorization on my combat archery several years
ago by Tuh Tahl, as Bryn Gwlad Archery Marshall, I was told it was
because it was said that folks were afraid I would be unable to
distinguish a marshal or spectator from an armored combatant. No matter
that I didn't shoot towards the spectators and tended to shoot into a
crowd of combatants, not trying to pick off individuals standing off by
themselves not carrying shields or weapons. In addition with the combat
legal crossbow, I was shooting at medium range targets rather than at
distant targets, since the bow was more accurate at that range. At
that range the targets were even more recognisable.
I think the people, apparently folks with political pull as Tuh Tahl
didn't want to oppose them, who demanded that I not be allowed to
shoot combat archery ought to sit back and consider that if they
were that concerned about a possible mis-shot then, why are they not
concerned now with archers, and particularly ballista crews, shooting
blindly at targets they cannot see and at best are using second or
third hand reports from observers which can easily get garbled in
the noise and pressure of battle.
In my case I could, and did, take precautions so that I was only
shooting at combatants. No, such precautions can't be guarenteed
to make things 100 percent safe. But allowing folks to blindly
shoot over a wall they can't see through or at best with a
spotter who can at best give general directions, is much less
uncertain than the precautions I was taking.
<more snip>
--__--__--
Message: 11
From: "Armand Dragonetti" <dragonetti at generich.com>
To: "Ansteorra List" <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>,
"Steppes List" <steppes at ansteorra.org>,
"Loch-Ruadh List" <loch-ruadh at ansteorra.org>,
"Lindenwood List" <lindenwood at ansteorra.org>,
"Glaslyn List" <glaslyn at ansteorra.org>,
"Elfsea List" <elfsea at ansteorra.org>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:20:24 -0600
Subject: [Ansteorra] Photos from Gulf Wars XI and Candelmas
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Greetings my friends, (and those I have yet to meet),
By the generosity of my Lady Ameline, I now have photos from Candelmas as
well as Gulf Wars online in my album. They can be found at:
Candelmas: http://www.generich.com/elfsea/page89.htm
Gulf Wars: http://www.generich.com/elfsea/page90.htm
There are no captions as of now, but I hope to add some later this evening.
After that, please help me identify mis-spellings, wrong titles or any other
mistakes. Thanks!
In the service of Kingdom & Crown, I remain,
Lord Armand Dragonetti
--__--__--
Message: 12
From: "Jesus Cavazos" <toshirokoi at hotmail.com>
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf War Rapier Kudos
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:42:43 -0600
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
>From: "James Crouchet" <jtc at io.com>
>Subject: [Ansteorra] Gulf War Rapier Kudos
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:24:17 -0600
>
>
>Kudos to Duke Kien, Count Mahadi, Count Barn, Sir Emerys, Sir Guy, Sir
>Giddion, and many other persons of great rank who not only fought on the
>rapier
>field, but who did not balk at serving under commanders whom they
>outranked.
>This is true humility of the most admirable kind.
>
I would like to add one to this list. His Royal Majesty Aaron. He stood in
line with the rest of the rapier fighters. He did not demand, ask, or even
suggest he be put in command as was his right. He was happy to stand
shoulder to shoulder with his troops like a true leader.
And in doing so, he inspired us all.
>
>Last but certainly not least, kudos to TRM Aaron and Britta for directing
>our
>efforts with wisdom, grace and wit. Our forces were inspired to great
>victories
>but our enemies became more our friends than ever before. I have never been
>more proud to be an Ansteorran.
>
>Baron Christian Jerome Dore, WSA
>
Vivat, to that.
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
--__--__--
Message: 13
From: "James Crouchet" <jtc at io.com>
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:36:49 -0600
Subject: [Ansteorra] One More Gulf War Rapier Kudo
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
I did leave out one very important kudo for GW rapier. Kudos to the
many rapier fighters who put on hardsuits and picked up bows, spears,
ballista bolts and/or shields to help our armored troops win the ravine
and field battles and make such a valiant stand at the castle.
Dore
--__--__--
Message: 14
From: "James Crouchet" <jtc at io.com>
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:36:49 -0600
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf War Rapier Kudos
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
On 20 Mar 2002 at 11:33, Sean Hertzberg wrote:
> One correction, though. Simone fought as the Coastal Commander. The
> redheads with me were Gwenneth and Ari. And they were an absolute
> ROCK that made it very easy to hold our position.
My apologies to HL Ari. She has shown her mettle before at GW so it
is no surprise to see her doing great things again.
Dore
--__--__--
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:06:13 -0000
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Mini Touny at Ravens Fort
From: "Watson Jeffrey J" <edric at edricsrose.com>
Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
I SHOULD be there to take some punishment as well. Let everyone break my new
hat in, get some good tape smuges on it. Of course I was using
break as a figure of speech, there better not be any breaking of my new toy.
:)
Edric de Aldebury
Terri and Michael Busa <busa at texed.net> said:
> Well boy bring them smoke wagons on .
>
> Balda
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <stdjan19 at unxmail.shsu.edu>
> To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Mini Touny at Ravens Fort
>
>
> > Hey Balda ill be there to thrown down on sunday. should be a good
> > time as usual.
> >
> > Alexander
> >
> > (Justin)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> > > --
> > > --
> > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > > To those that want some. There will be a mini-tourney held at the
> > gazebo in Huntsville
> > Texas
> > > on March 24 2002 at 2pm The mini-tourney will be held in a bear pit
> > fashion.
> > >
> > > All who come to fight must have a fighter card that is current or
> > be willing to fill out
> > and sign a release form, also please bring your membership card.
> > Isobail will be creating
> > a database of this information.
> > >
> > > So if you want some come and get it. I'll try to have plenty for
> > every one.
> > >
> > > Lord Balda The Hornswoggled
> > > Of Clan Cadhlafitheach
> > > Knight Marshal of Ravens Fort
> > > --
> > > [ pushpins and paper clips left border.gif of type image/gif
> > deleted ]
> > > --
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ansteorra mailing list
> > > Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> > > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra mailing list
> > Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
> >
>
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