[Ansteorra] Lordship vs Honorable Lord

[Paul DeLisle]

Ohh, goody...my favorite soapbox (well...one of them!)

First off; let's remember one thing: The usage of almost all Titles in the
SCA are fabrications. In almost all cases, they are used improperly compared
to period usage, or are freely exchanged with other titles in-period. (As an
example, "Don" could easily mean the (SCA) equivilent of Lord, Baron, or
Knight...whereas "Lord" can easily mean Baron, Knight, or King. (and we
won't *even* get into "Duke", "Master", and "Count"...) So, to conclude: the
SCA creates it's own etymology. (*shrug* Hey, we even divide our
crafts-perons into Arts and Sciences, and our fighting into Heavy and
Light....it's our way.)

Now, with *that* out of the way...
Years ago, in the Dark Ages, when Giants walked the earth (well, except for
Lloyd...he was a short Giant *g*), the titles chosen for a Grant-level award
were His Lordship/Her Ladyship. This worked *fine*; it was easy to say,
worked as both a Title, and a method of address (Your Lordship, etc), and
differentiated easily from an Armigerous-level award.

HOWEVER (comma) about 15 years ago...some herald somewhere (I'm fairly
certain that Laurel Sovereign started it at the SCA level; but not positive)
decided that "His Lordship" sounded "too modern", and that it was "really
only a Victorian affectation." Therefore, it was decreed that we will now
only use "The Honorable Lord" and "The Honorable Lady"; a horrible mouthful
to spew out, with no clear attendent method of address. For some
unfathomable reason, the idea stuck. (Probably because most *other* Kingdoms
at the time didn't *have* Grant-level awards...they use "Awards of High
Merit" and the like...still AoA-level, but ranked above other AoA's. As
such, Grant-levels were in the minority.)

So, let's examine the thinking here, eh?
The primary argument against "His Lordship" (et al) is non-periodicity.

   THIS IS PATENTLY FALSE.

A simple jaunt through the Oxford English Dictionary (1979 edition) under
"Lordship", definition 5: "the personality of a lord, esp. with possessive
pronouns" shows references from 1493, 1480, 1550-3, 1593 (this one is
Shakespeare, Henry VI), and 1613 (also Shakespeare, Henry VIII), followed by
a host of post-period references. (I'll leave the actual quotations; looking
them up can be an exercise for the student *g*)
Checking under "Ladyship", definition 2: "the personality of a Lady", we
find references to 1374 (Chaucer, no less), @1400, @1500, 1550, 1551, and
1600 (good master William S. again, As You Like It.)

As for the secondary argument ("It sounds Victorian"):
...Well, to compare, let's examine one of the favorite forms of address in
the SCA: "Milord."
Letting our fingers do the walking again (through the OED), produces a very
short entry...one reference to 1596, and several in the *1800's*.
Hmm.....If we're worried about "Victorian usage"; it sounds like we're
focusing on the wrong form of address to me!

As to the current references from Society Corpura; I can only assume that
they "dodged the bullet", by not making *any* choice.

So, there you are: History, etymology, *and* a diatribe, all rolled into
one! Read, enjoy, and make your own decision what form to use.
I hope it helped.

In Service, I remain
Alden Pharamond
Tempio, Ansteorra
(WSA, CIM, CSM, former [and premier] Wakeforest Herald, former Regional
Herald, and Olde Farte)


> So in finding myself recently with a vested interest in the
> outcome of this question, I decided to search around in the
> various and sundry governing documents that give approved and
> alternate titles for the various ranks within the SCA.  In
> perusing both the Award Constitutions and the Laws of Ansteorra,
> as well as the Society Corpora, I find nothing that supports the
> use of either "His/Her Lordship" or "Honorable Lord/Lady" for
> receipents of honors bearing a Grant of Arms.
>
> In Ansteorra, the White Scarves, the Centurions and the Golden
> Lancers have traditional titles that befit their specific orders,
> but membership in the other GoA orders does not grant any title
> or form of address save for that which is accounted to recipients
> of a Grant of Arms.
>
> The only reference I found for this form of address is from the
> Society Corpora, which gives the official title/address of a GoA
> as "Lord/Lady."
>
> So my question is: where did the Honorable Lord/Lady and His/Her
> Lordship come from, and under what authority save for tradition
> are we using it?
>
>
> Snorri Hallsson, CSM