[Ansteorra] FW: [outlands] An Open Letter Re: Ibrahim and Ileana and the Board of Directors

[Brent Ryder]

Since it was requested that this be forwarded to the lists for there 
involvement, Here is a bit of information from our neighbors to the west:


>>From: "wyddershin" <black_ksca at hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: outlands at yahoogroups.com
>>To: outlands at yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: [outlands] An Open Letter Re: Ibrahim and Ileana and the Board of 
>>Directors
>>Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:09:57 -0000
>>
>>An Open Letter Re: Ibrahim and Ileana and the Board of Directors
>>(ver 1.0)
>>Greetings,
>>
>>My name is Sir Daniel d'Antioche (once known as Thegn Sir Dan
>>Halfhand-Second Baron of Sentinels Keep)
>>At the Third Quarter of 2005 meeting of the SCA Board of directors
>>we have heard that the following business did occur:
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Executive Session
>>Kingdom of the Outlands Request for Sanction of Previous Crown
>>By consensus, Chairman Williams directed the Society Seneschal to
>>begin an investigation into possible violations of Outlands Kingdom
>>traditions and customs by Ibrahim and Ileana as Sovereign and
>>Consort of the Outlands, pursuant to the request of Hoegaarden and
>>Chiara, King and Queen of the Outlands.
>>Chairman Williams further directed that the minutes reflect that the
>>Board recognizes the challenging position of Their Majesties
>>Hoegaarden and Chiara in this matter, and commends Their actions in
>>bringing it forward.
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>Upon reading this, I was quite shocked. I have known Duke Ibrahim
>>since he was 15. I was at his first fighters practice, and watched
>>him from afar over the years after I moved to An Tir. Although we
>>were not close friends, I have always like and admired him and his
>>brother, and have been very pleased to see him mature into the man
>>and the knight he has become within the SCA.
>>
>>Understand, that since this has been sent up to the BoD, it is no
>>longer just an Outlands issue. Any decision rendered on this case
>>will have far reaching ramifications beyond the Kingdom of the
>>Outlands, and once again, we may see possible further broadening of
>>the powers and authority that the BoD has continued to invest in
>>itself.
>>
>>Upon reading the above missive, I set out to establish the facts
>>around the incident that gave rise to the situation. Below I have
>>listed them categorized as Facts, Informed Opinions, Unanswered
>>Questions, and Personal Conjecture.
>>
>>
>>Facts:
>>
>>1-Just before stepping down as the Crown of the Outlands, Ibrahim
>>and Ileana conducted a ceremony for one Duke Lycurgus to re-invest
>>him with Knighthood.
>>
>>2-At that Ceremony, the then-Crown Prince, Hoegaarden, was the
>>person who went out into the audience to escort Duke Lycurgus before
>>TRM's for his ceremony.
>>
>>3- Duke Lycurgus, sometime after an incident at Estrella War in
>>2001, submitted a letter to the BoD relinquishing his Knighthood. On
>>7/2101 an investigation was launched, and on Oct 20 01 he was
>>sanctioned for 2 years from date. (No mention that I can find that
>>the BoD officially recognized him giving up his belt-but I could be
>>wrong)
>>
>>4- The relevant Outlands Law regarding this issue are as follows:
>>(from http://www.outlands.org/Library/lawweb.html)
>>
>>E. The Crown shall confer awards upon individuals. Only members of
>>the S.C.A. may receive armigerous awards. No award, whether
>>armigerous or not, may be conferred upon a subject of any realm
>>outside the Kingdom of the Outlands without the prior written
>>consent of the Crown to whom the individual is subject.
>>  I. The Crown sets the Order of the March for their Courts and for
>>Kingdom events.
>>
>>5- The Relevant Society rules regarding this issue are as follows:
>>(from http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf )
>>
>>I. GENERAL C. Role of the Board 2. Relationship with branches –
>>The Board will maintain a policy of non-interference with branch
>>activities. The Board reserves the right to intervene in branch
>>affairs if:
>>a) The events leading to such intervention appear to cause a threat
>>to the integrity of the Society or the SCA, Inc.;
>>b) The governing documents of the Society appear to have been
>>violated;
>>c) There is a threat to the SCA's legal standing; or
>>d) The Board is asked to become involved.
>>
>>6- Meg Baron (recently retired President of the SCA) Lives in the
>>Outlands.
>>
>>7- It is a long recognized process that giving out Peerages is a
>>decision made at the Kingdom level.
>>
>>Informed Opinions:
>>
>>1-There is a group of Peers and populace in Outlands that are
>>unhappy with the re-Knighting.
>>
>>2- There is a smaller group of Peers and populace that are happy
>>with the re-Knighting
>>
>>2-Meg Baron is among the Peers who are unhappy
>>
>>3-Ibrahim and Ileana are in trouble for violating the `traditions'
>>of the Outlands, *not* Kingdom Law and *certainly not* Mundane Law.
>>
>>4-These `traditions' are not written anywhere that I've been able to
>>find online.
>>
>>5-Although many people I've spoken to claim that the Outlands is
>>a `The Kings Word is Law' Kingdom, that phrase does not appear in
>>Outlands Kingdom Law, unlike many other Kingdoms in the SCA.
>>
>>6- Duke Lycurgus's name was discussed inconclusively with many
>>Crowns since he gave up his belt in 2001. This includes many
>>discussions both public and private with Ibrahim while he was King.
>>
>>7-One of the people who was in favor of the re-knighting before the
>>fact was the Current Crown of the Outlands Hoegaarden.
>>
>>
>>Unanswered Questions:
>>
>>1-While I have been able to determine that Duke Lycurgus did send in
>>a letter relinquishing his belt to the BoD, I have been unable to
>>determine from the minutes (that I've been able to find) what, if
>>any, action the BoD took at that time other than the Sanction listed
>>above. Anyone with actual facts regarding this issue is encouraged
>>to send them forward to me. It is likely his request was accepted,
>>but, if for some reason the BoD did not take action on this issue,
>>then by the letter of the law this entire situation and point is
>>moot since that would mean Duke Lycurgus was never properly degraded
>>by the BoD in 2001.
>>
>>2-It is VERY possible that any ruling regarding this issue will
>>restrict ALL other future Crowns from making peers as they see fit.
>>According to the Governing Documents any ruling by the BoD applies
>>across the board to *all* Kingdoms.  If Ibrahim and Ileana are
>>sanctioned for this action, then will we require Peerage Council
>>approval and consent for all future Peerages in ALL Kingdoms?
>>
>>3- How is it that the current Crown pushed for Duke Lycurgus to get
>>his belt back but then sends up Ibrahim and Ileana to the BoD for
>>discipline for an act that he himself championed?
>>
>>4-Why is it that the Outlands seems to be so willing to send up
>>internal matters up to the BoD that would be handled internally at
>>the Kingdom level by so many other Kingdoms?
>>
>>5- Is the above question related to the fact that the President of
>>the SCA lived in the Outlands during this incident?
>>
>>
>>Personal Conjecture:
>>
>>Ibrahim and Ileana are possibly about to become collateral damage in
>>a fight that is actually aimed at re-stripping Duke Lycurgus of his
>>belt. In order to get that belt, first they have to go after the
>>Crown that gave it to him.  Another casualty in this fight will be
>>future Crowns' heretofore (in many Kingdoms ABSOLUTE) held right to
>>be the final judge on who gets peerages and who doesn't.
>>
>>It is also become increasingly clear that the BoD, although they
>>claim to be hesitant to get involved with local issues, has no
>>compunction whatsoever into wading into local medieval issues that
>>are far beyond the scope of their original mandate:
>>
>>"The Board is the final court of appeal for disputes that have
>>escalated beyond the ability of the participants or the officers to
>>handle. However, it is reluctant to play that role because its
>>rulings affect the entire Society – often by restricting everyone's
>>freedom and reducing their enjoyment of the organization. Corpora
>>provides an unlimited right of appeal to the Board, but members
>>should make every effort to work out their disputes at as low a
>>level in the organization as possible. "
>>How is the BoD being `RELUCTANT" when they repeatedly and actively
>>pressure Crowns into sending up charges in order to give the BoD the
>>opportunity to intervene in local issues?
>>
>>I would invite anyone who has any more actual factual information to
>>send this to me and I will be happy to revise this list. I realize
>>that since these actions mostly took place nearly halfway across the
>>continent that I have had to rely on second hand information.  If
>>any of the above points are incorrect please let me know. It is not
>>my intention to spread incorrect information regarding this or any
>>other issue.
>>
>>I am sending this open letter out to many different public areas,
>>but I am also cc'ing it to each and ever member of the BoD at
>>directors at sca.org   and would encourage you to do the same. It is
>>important to speak out if you feel as strongly about this as I do,
>>or feel it's important that the BoD hears other voices outside the
>>corporate echo chamber on this issue.
>>
>>To be clear, the objective of this letter is to encourage the BoD to
>>NOT get involved in this local Kingdom matter. Secondarily the
>>objective is to encourage other `members' of the SCA to also
>>publicly encourage the BoD to stay out of the medieval side of OUR
>>game.
>>
>>Permission is not only give but encouraged to re-print or forward
>>this letter ONLY in its entirety anywhere by anyone, anytime.
>>
>>In Service,
>>
>>Sir Daniel d'Antioche
>>
>>
>>Cc:
>>directors at sca.org
>>Outlands List
>>Known World Chivalry list
>>Various An Tir Lists
>>Artemisia List
>>Kingdom of the East list
>>(possibly others as I think of them)