[Ansteorra] Provinces, a stunned question

[Chris Backus]

I would agree that he has every right to voice his concerns and to ask 
questions.  I do take issue with how he does it, though.  Dismissing a lady 
so curtly, especially when she is addressing something which he brought up 
is as against the chivalry which has always been prevalent in *my* SCA as 
the idea of a Baronial level group without a Baron or Baroness is against 
Alden's idea of the SCA and I won't stand by while it goes unheeded out of 
modern respect for open discourse.  I also can't fail to note that while 
saying the idea of a Province comes from modern political models instead of 
the feudal system which is supposed to be the basis of the SCA, Alden openly 
questions a decision made by his feudal lord, basically showing that we are 
all grounded in modern ideals and can't even escape them when we're in the 
middle of questioning them.  I didn't want anyone to miss the irony.

If Alden wants his issues addressed, the logical way to go about that would 
be to ask Master Modius, a gentle who is well known to him and who would 
reasonably have all the material that went into the decision.  I don't feel 
this was ever about questioning a decision, but rather denigrating it in 
public.  Why would you cast aspersions on something you're merely unsure of? 
Wouldn't you get the answers to your questions first and then make up your 
mind?  Most people don't attack before making up their mind.  As to whether 
attacking Alden counts as debate, I would say the same for his treatment of 
Emma.  I merely followed the precendent as set by Alden already.

Hawkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <HerrDetlef at aol.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Provinces, a stunned question


> With all due respect, Hawkins, I must take issue with the level of 
> discourse
> you have directed towards Master Alden.  While I may not personally agree 
> with
> his position on the matter, I believe he has every right to voice his
> concerns.  I also believe that this thread should consist of a discussion 
> of the
> issue at hand, and not a dismissal of one person's concerns because of the 
> manner
> in which that person voiced those concerns.
> In a message dated 1/28/2006 2:34:45 AM Central Standard Time,
> cebackus at hotmail.com writes:
>
> How is being short with a lady part of the "ideal" model we try to
> recreate?
> How is asking a lady if she has a valid point being short with her?  If 
> she
> has a valid point (and she does), there is nothing wrong at all with
> articulating that point.
> How is publicly disagreeing with a decision made by your feudal
> lord (or the lord of your feudal lord) part of the historical model you 
> seem
> to idealize?

> Questioning the sovereign's actions isn't period?  Barons often waged 
> civil
> wars against their sovereigns throughout the period, but Master Alden has 
> not
> even suggested denying the validity of the Crown's actions, much less 
> mustering
> an army against the Crown over those actions.  In fact, he said that,
> although he isn't convinced about the decision, he accepts it.  One might 
> argue that
> Alden's acceptance in the face of perplexity is not period.
> Isn't public debate on an internet forum about as modern as
> they come?
> How is attacking Master Alden "public debate"?  Stick to the issue and 
> avoid
> these ad hominem fallacies.
> Or if we prefer the historical model,should someone simply give
> you the lie direct and end this conversation?
> If the sign to end this thread hasn't already come, it comes here.  We 
> have
> long forgotten the issue at hand.  It seems Master Alden's concerns will 
> not
> get addressed.  Alas!
>
> Detlef