[Ansteorra] Question about motifs in artwork - insignia

L T ldeerslayer at yahoo.com
Thu Jun 15 16:31:03 PDT 2006


Hello Susan...Haven't heard from you in a while...
life must be busy...haven't see your daughter either
miss seeing you both...

The the questions at hand...:

Susan <catmafia at hughes.net> wrote:
S:I was contimplaiting a project and it just dawned on me that something 
S:used in it is also used as a piece of Ansteorran regalia, it is a 
S: thistle from a Scottish coin and yes my absentmindedness is astounding.
S: What exactly is the rule on using things that were used in period, but 
S: are also used in regalia?  

I know of no "exact" rule...but the SCA and each Kingdom has it's own sumptuary law in regard to who has the "right" within the SCA to wear XXX.

S:  documentation, but they can only be used by someone who has the right to S:bear that thing? Can you only do it if the person who uses it has the 
 S: rights to wear that piece of regalia?

In many ways it's a perception issue.

If you wear something that looks close enough to insignia/regalia to be mistaken for it...it's usually taken as the person wearing it is acting presumptuious...

If you use a black thistle of any kind...it will be assumed by others in Ansteorra and those in Kingdoms nearby that the person displaying it has at least one Sable Thistle.

Now if you want to have silver thistles embroidered on your cloth...or on a penanular broach or badge...as was used in Scottland...go for it...

if you move to another kingdom that has a "silver thistle award" then you will
have to make the decision on whether you want to have to deal with explaining
that you don't have the award....thousands of times...

The higher the award...the more people get in a snit...and it's just bad form...
and not worth the trouble...to wear things with symbols of our Peerages and
our Royalty on them.

Many people migrating in from other kingdoms to Ansteorra tend to have cultural differences about circlets and coronets...
here a baronial coronet is over an inch (which is restricted to those who have a court barony) 
and a general circlet which is 5/8ths of an inch or less

Other kingdoms don't have the same sumptuary laws we do...

***************************************************
Note: Innerkingdom anthropology time - though "insignia" and "regalia" meen pretty much the same thing....in my experience, southern, coastal and central Ansteorra use the term "insignia" to describe the badges/displayed symbols of awards and peerages...whereas they use "regalia" for those things associated with the Royal's or Landed Nobles; northern and western region folks tend to use botherr terms interchangeably
****************************************************

S: If so, how about where cultures/kingdoms are next to each other?

If you wear anything with a black star on it...even if it isn't the "right one"...especailly on a gold field...people will prettymuch assume that you are Ansteorran...

If you wear the Cross of Calatrava especially on a purple background...people will pretty much assume that you are from Calontir...

Depends on what you want people to presume about you...

S:And people who move from one kingdom to another, do they stop wearing pieces they had had in another kingdom that wern't attached to any regalia?

Sometimes yes, and sometimes no...I know of several people who had circlets that were over the 5/8ths inch...and did not have court barony's who stopped wearing them...cause here everyone automatically assumed that they were a Baron when the put it on...and they got tired of explaining...and ...if ya live somewhere...and you want to "fit" in...it's hard to when you are always explaining
why you are not the rank they think you are...

S: How about on people's arms?

There are certain ones I wouldn't wear...like Duke Sigmunds winged foot...
because it is so unique...and it is so ingrained in Ansteorra to see that as
a mark of him...so it caries the emotions they feel toward that person...
right or wrong...good or bad...it's a human nature thing...

Now...like Duchess Rowan's bear or Sir Henri's owl....they're not as unique...
so I wouldn't see any problem...as long as you didn't wear their personal device or badge...(which means they own you! <smile>)

S:  I make it to things in about equal number in Ansteorra and Calontir and this has been perplexing me.  I have always been interested in this, expecially in cases such as the proper garb accutraments weren't appropriate because of belt color and issues like that.

Belt colour...that's a hot button topic...

Most people don't mind if a lady wears a white belt with a white outfit (here in Ansteorra)...when it's obvious that she's not attempting to presume the rank...but it still hinks when ya look at it...

Now the whole stoplight (red, yellow, green) belts issue...are custom in Ansteorra (and we "stole it" from other kingdoms) they are not part of law...so technically anyone can wear a red, yellow, or green belt. But then again...how many times do you want to explain to someone that you are not a student of a Peer...

S:Looking forward to the discussion,

S:Susan the Curious

LDeerSlayer


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