[Ansteorra] Seeking information: Order of the Knights of the Sable Garland

[Lisa A. May]

Michael,

For what it's worth, I didn't see Her Grace as denigrating the  
order.  I did see her comment (unfavorably) on how it was presented  
and how it is perpetuated, as well as describe the perception of some  
of the populace with respect to the order.  I myself distinctly  
remember, when the order was announced, wondering how the order could  
have been "created by the Ladies of the Rose" when I was not  
consulted nor had my opinion asked, and I knew quite well that  
several other Ladies of the Rose were taken by surprise as well.  The  
requirement for a unanimous approval of the order for new members  
also does not make much sense because it does not, as Her Grace has  
pointed out, take into account members going inactive, etc.  The  
gentlemen inducted into the order deserve nothing but high praise,  
but the formation and perpetuation of the order certainly can stand  
some criticism.  My two cents, for what it's worth . . .

Maggie

Countess Margaret ny Connor
Barony of the Steppes
Kingdom of Ansteorra


On Apr 15, 2007, at 2:32 PM, Michael Silverhands wrote:

> Your Grace,
>
> While I respect your words and your opinion very highly, I don't
> understand how an order that lifts up a select, remarkable few of our
> kinsmen, somehow diminishes you or yours. Nor have I personally ever
> heard anyone say they didn't like or approve of the Order of the
> Sable Garland, until now.
>
> I agree with you that "it would be nice for the populace to have a
> way to spotlight people that truly do a good job as a proper peer."
> On the other hand, we *do* have several ways to do that. The Crown
> can grant an Augmentation of Arms (and has done so upon occasion).
> The Crown or the Populace can simply say "thank you", or hold a "So-
> and-so Appreciation Day" event. Or, as you suggest, there could be an
> order created for this sort of recognition, an order for "simple
> Knights" whose candidates would be put forth by the populace (or the
> Chivalry) and selected by the Crown. I see nothing wrong with that,
> and invite/encourage you to see it done.
>
> I'm sorry that the dream fulfilled by the Order of the Sable Garland
> does not fulfill your *own* dream, but please don't knock it just
> because it doesn't. To quote an old, old saying: "Please don't
> shorten my line; lengthen your own."
>
> With utmost respect,
> Michael Silverhands
>
> On Apr 15, 2007, at 6:22 AM, willowdewisp at juno.com wrote:
>
>> I can  tell you my side of the story. Which stills sticks in my
>> throat. Duke Inman had a lot to do with the formation of the order.
>> He lives a couple of blocks from me. Even though the order is
>> suppose to have been started by the Roses. I and many of the
>> Central Roses at the time were not asked or opinion on the Order.
>> Of Course Duke Inman knew my opinion. I believe in the Order of
>> Chivalry in the SCA and especially in this Kingdom. I do not and
>> did not believe we needed the order. In other kingdom these orders
>> did not work out to well. The unanimous polling requirement leads
>> to a closed order. I do believe that there are Knights in the
>> circle  that deserve to be spotlighted as very good Knights. I just
>> don't believe that the polling members should be the people in the
>> Order. I believe the whole Chivalry should select the Candidates
>> with a 3/4 vote. I was especially upset at the Order because it was
>> for  only Knights to start off  with. When the Order got announced
>> and I knew nothing about it I was upset. His Grace, Duke Inman came
>> over to explain it to me and try to get Duke Jonathan  to be one of
>> the first members. His Grace started off telling Master Jonathan
>> that to get in the order he would have to be a knight. This didn''t
>> sit to well. Then he told his Grace that this was a porch to retire
>> to overlooking the sea. I didn't want my husband to retire as an
>> active member of the Order of the Chivalry. He and I both believe
>> in the equality of the Peers circles.  We are all  bothers and
>> sisters. Then His Grace look at me and stated, " Our Ladies love us
>> and want us to have this award." This made me mad in two ways. The
>> first is obvious. I love my husband. The second really bothered me.
>> The way he said it made me think of the Ladies of the Rose giving
>> things to their Lords. That just didn't feel right. His Grace, Duke
>> Inman wasn't he usually smooth talking self that evening.
>> I have never been present when a Lady of the Rose talked about
>> putting someones name for the Order. They know my feelings and
>> maybe are just being courteous? I know the gentlemen of the Order
>> and have high regards for all of them, but I am still uncomfortable
>> about the selection process and would like to see more simple
>> Knights in the order.
>> I know many members of the populace were unhappy about the order. I
>> have even heard the Tired old Duke Club song. Something about
>> sitting on their garlands. Many people believe that the upper
>> nobility has enough and we don't need more. Since I can't get this
>> order I will disagree. For many of our knight have a secret dream--
>> they would really like to be in a Order like the Order of the
>> Garter. I believe that the reason these special Orders are formed
>> in so many kingdoms is because secret dream. I think it is a good
>> dream. In a way we have a kind of Order that carries the same kind
>> of respect as the Order of the Garter. It is the Lions of
>> Ansteorra. Going back to the candidate process  only if the people
>> of the kingdom truly believe in the system that picks the candidate
>> will the people give the Order the respect that the founders wanted
>> it to have. I think the people should select the candidates and the
>> Crown should select from the candidates. I would like it to be open
>> to all the Chivalry. I would also like the other peerage to have
>> something. I have seen individuals put 15 plus years serving the
>> kingdom as good peers. I think it would be nice for the populace to
>> have a way to spotlight people that truly do a good job as a proper
>> peer.
>> The strange thing is I believe that I should never be a candidate
>> and most of us that have been crowns should not be. The buck stops
>> with the Crown and most of us have had to do things that were less
>> then kind and gracious. I have been an ass more than once. Most of
>> the time for good and just reasons. I view my job as a royal peer
>> to sometimes be an ass so others don't have to be. It is the job of
>> the noble to protect the honor and nobility of the people.
>> Willow
>
>
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