[Ansteorra] SCA, the ADA, and all of us

Pug Bainter pug at pug.net
Sun Mar 25 06:54:20 PDT 2007

Sorry. This got sent a tad early. The section of the FAQ is:

Q. Are there any limitations on the ADA's auxiliary aids requirements?

A. Yes. The ADA does not require the provision of any auxiliary aid that
would result in an undue burden or in a fundamental alteration in the nature
of the goods or services provided by a public accommodation.

This means increased financial burden is a very reasonable exclusion to a
site within the context of the SCA. A small amount may not seem like much to
many people, but we have enough problems getting people to pay the increased
site costs because of the inflation of site costs, but every hundred dollars
a site costs could increase the fee people pay by $1 and lower attendance to
the point that the group doesn't make money.


-----Original Message-----
From: ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Pug Bainter
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 8:41 AM
To: 'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA, the ADA, and all of us

I'm gonna try to keep my dander under control again this time.


Here is a post I made on this two years ago about this topic, which some try
to get others to provide them service under a law that many laymen don't
understand. This is followed by the corporate policy from the governing
documents on accessibility which arose from what I think were unreasonable
requests for GulfWar 2 years ago.


This policy explicitly sites "while preserving the fundamental nature of the
SCA event". If the SCA were to deny you a generator while allowing others,
that would be against the ADA, but keeping an isolated environment from the
outside world to immerse people in the "mood" is completely reasonable. This
is just like allowing people the use of scooters at GulfWar without allowing
them their own personal golf cart as being reasonable.


As well, something to keep in mind when looking at sites is another item
from the FAQ:



The ADA is all about reasonable access and not *total* access. For example:


- not all parts of a restaurant have to be accessible

- not all bathrooms/stalls have to be accessible

- not all floors of a building have to be accessible


As well, the section that covers what we are talking about falls under the
ADA FAQ section at:


What are public accommodations?


A. A public accommodation is a private entity that owns, operates,

   leases, or leases to, a place of public accommodation. Places of public

   accommodation include a wide range of entities, such as restaurants,

   hotels, theaters, doctors' offices, pharmacies, retail stores, museums,

   libraries, parks, private schools, and day care centers. Private clubs

   and religious organizations are exempt from the ADA's title III

   requirements for public accommodations.


Please note that many of the private areas we rent, including religious
organizations, are explicitly exempt. There are restrictions on *new*
constructions to try to ensure they are compliant but not retrofit old sites
unless required by law. Some businesses and churches will try to make
reasonable accommodations under the ADA in order to be more diverse even
when they are not required to.


As for events such as Gulf War and Pennsic, there are services provided by
the staff to accommodate people who need assistance such as mobility
services. The ADA is *not* about making sure that a person can do everything
themself, but that there are measures in place *if* required by the ADA. It
is also *not* about giving them the easiest choice but a reasonable choice.





The SCA, Inc. will not discriminate against any member or participant on the
basis of race, sex, religion,

national origin, age or disability. The SCA, Inc. will comply with all laws
of the nation in which the meeting or

event is held. For any meeting or event held in the United States, the SCA,
Inc. will comply with the

Americans with Disabilities Act. The SCA, Inc. will provide reasonable
accommodations to qualified

individuals with disabilities to enable all participants to fully enjoy the
events whenever it is possible to do so.

The SCA, Inc. will at all times attempt to provide reasonable
accommodations, while preserving the

fundamental nature of the SCA event.






-----Original Message-----
From: ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Chass
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:09 AM
To: 'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA, the ADA, and all of us


     My dear lady (and if you people know me I am almost as fond of

Willow as I am Maleah). Yes but the key words to remember are Equal

access and equal enjoyment. A completely primitive site is acceptable if

people don't complain I run a generator to charge my chair, or the site

is in such bad shape my powerchair can not get around or the roads in

are so tore up my Van can not get in (think Camp Cimmeron and you will

realize why I said this). If there is a feast hall or any buildings that

everyone else has access to, by law we are supposed to be able to access

them, if there are latrines then we must be able to access them as well

(If you get porta poties get the large handicapped ones the small ones

will not work). Now having said this... if someone pushed because a

primitive site was used that didn't have non-skid pathways at a min of

36 inches wide etc.... (yes there are jerks everywhere), they could

raise a fuss. I would be just as happy to attend an event with only

camping, no feast hall or amenities (except my generator, I have to face

charging this chair every day, and besides those with need of

nebulizer/c-pat machines could be next to me) as long as I could get

around in my chair. 


Chass Brown A.K.A. 

Charinthalis Del Sans of the portable chariot. 

Honorable Recruiter of the House of the Red Shark.

Muddeler of Mead



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