[Ansteorra] March 25 in Anstoerra history

willowjonbardc at juno.com willowjonbardc at juno.com
Sun Mar 25 17:34:44 PDT 2007

     While you are partially right, there are areas your are completely
wrong. As for the Unreasonable requests... the next time they are made a
judge will have to decide :) and I am sure the SCA would lose (Also gulf
wars 2 years ago wouldn't have been as bad an issue had the Autocrat not
lied then the BOD lied to cover it up until I pointed it all out to them
to try and get the truth of the situation, with the emails showing both
parties had lied, and no I am not threatening to sue). The policy the
BOD put in is undergoing changes. They are discussing with an A.D.A.
specialty group of Attny's. The real law on access is " Equal Access
Equal Enjoyment". Lets say like the cooking college Ansteorra had. It
was in a building that had nothing but stairs, and most of the cooking
classes were on the second floor. That's a violation since we did not
have access to the classes. If it's a multi story building and they are
holding something like judging for A&S etc on the second floor as it is
part of the event... and we do not have access it's a violation. Now
here is you an example... Camp Cimmeron... Now there is no access to
anything but one cabin.  Camp fire camps and Boy scout camps are not
immune to the A.D.A. by the way. I can not access the latrine, I can not
access the Feast hall (now since the little wooden ramp they had is
gone) and the site is in such disrepair my chair has a real real
difficult time getting around.

     You pointed out where sites like religious grounds are immune to
A.D.A. . Yes a Church is immune to the A.D.A., BUT the group who rents
it for use is not, and can be sued for denying equal access. There is
enough case law to support that suit and the SCA can't win. That's why
the BOD is trying to get regulation on access for choosing a site. Also
pug for a group that is supposed to be about chivalry, people asking for
equal access is always a fight and we always wind up being flamed on or
off list. Is that not odd? I know the normal thought patterns is "Your
disabled you should be out of sight and out of mind", I am not that way,
and there are more and more like me, some who will lay a law suit
against the SCA and cost it its 501-c status and a ton of money. I was
very active in the SCA before I broke my back, it has taken me 3 1/2
years to figure out how to be active again. Again I point out there
should never be grounds for a site we choose to have "Not Handicapped
Friendly" in the advertising. Also pug Minimum Access is not Equal
Access. The law is for Equal Access. 

Chass Brown A.K.A. 

Charinthalis Del Sans of the portable chariot. 

Honorable Recruiter of the House of the Red Shark.

Muddeler of Mead

-----Original Message-----
From: ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Pug Bainter
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 7:41 AM
To: 'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA, the ADA, and all of us

I'm gonna try to keep my dander under control again this time.


Here is a post I made on this two years ago about this topic, which some
to get others to provide them service under a law that many laymen don't
understand. This is followed by the corporate policy from the governing
documents on accessibility which arose from what I think were
requests for GulfWar 2 years ago.


This policy explicitly sites "while preserving the fundamental nature of
SCA event". If the SCA were to deny you a generator while allowing
that would be against the ADA, but keeping an isolated environment from
outside world to immerse people in the "mood" is completely reasonable.
is just like allowing people the use of scooters at GulfWar without
them their own personal golf cart as being reasonable.


As well, something to keep in mind when looking at sites is another item
from the FAQ:



The ADA is all about reasonable access and not *total* access. For


- not all parts of a restaurant have to be accessible

- not all bathrooms/stalls have to be accessible

- not all floors of a building have to be accessible


As well, the section that covers what we are talking about falls under
ADA FAQ section at:


What are public accommodations?


A. A public accommodation is a private entity that owns, operates,

   leases, or leases to, a place of public accommodation. Places of

   accommodation include a wide range of entities, such as restaurants,

   hotels, theaters, doctors' offices, pharmacies, retail stores,

   libraries, parks, private schools, and day care centers. Private

   and religious organizations are exempt from the ADA's title III

   requirements for public accommodations.


Please note that many of the private areas we rent, including religious
organizations, are explicitly exempt. There are restrictions on *new*
constructions to try to ensure they are compliant but not retrofit old
unless required by law. Some businesses and churches will try to make
reasonable accommodations under the ADA in order to be more diverse even
when they are not required to.


As for events such as Gulf War and Pennsic, there are services provided
the staff to accommodate people who need assistance such as mobility
services. The ADA is *not* about making sure that a person can do
themself, but that there are measures in place *if* required by the ADA.
is also *not* about giving them the easiest choice but a reasonable





The SCA, Inc. will not discriminate against any member or participant on
basis of race, sex, religion,

national origin, age or disability. The SCA, Inc. will comply with all
of the nation in which the meeting or

event is held. For any meeting or event held in the United States, the
Inc. will comply with the

Americans with Disabilities Act. The SCA, Inc. will provide reasonable
accommodations to qualified

individuals with disabilities to enable all participants to fully enjoy
events whenever it is possible to do so.

The SCA, Inc. will at all times attempt to provide reasonable
accommodations, while preserving the

fundamental nature of the SCA event.





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