[Ansteorra] Ansteorra Ring belts vs Buckles
ldeerslayer at yahoo.com
Tue Nov 13 20:59:01 PST 2007
My comments behind the ::
Isobel de Kirkbryde <kirkbryde at yahoo.com> wrote:
>I have interspersed my answers in caps so that you can tell what I am >answering. I am NOT yelling or anything of the sort.
:: good thing you told me... otherwise I'd go by conventional I-net etiquette and
:: assume you were yelling ;)
>>It'd be best if she could put or direct us to pics of the itemsor catalog >>numbers...that she states were examples of ring belts...We can speculate all >>day long... without them and never know...I don't know if these were actual >>items.... or recreations...or even if they appeared to be true "rings" if there >>wasn't further evidence found and just not revised in the catalogueor in other >>literature...I'd like the information on the items... so I can write people who >>have examined them and see what the deal is...
>I WILL DO MY BEST TO LOCATE INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET ON
>THE RING BELTS. I DON'T RECALL OFF-HAND WHETHER THESE WERE >RE-RECREATIONS OR NOT, BUT MY MEMORY SAYS NOT. I WILL
>DOUBLE CHECK IF I CAN FIND A LINK TO THE SPECIFIC EXHIBIT I WILL >POST IT.
>>This subject is actually a large bone of controversy in severalgroups of >>people... and is not going to be solved by one personswith no credentials >>posting it on an SCA kingdom e-list...
>I AM NOT CERTAIN WHAT "CREDENTIALS" YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. >CERTAINLY MILORD HUSBAND HAS SOME -- AFTER ALL HE IS A LAUREL >AND AFTER LOOKING AT THE LAUREL'S LIST, OUT OF ALL OF THEM, >THERE ARE ONLY 15 THAT HAVE BEEN LAURELS LONGER THAN HE >HAS. SO EXCUSE MY POOR CREDENTIALS AND I'LL LET HIS STAND FOR >WHAT THEY ARE.
::This is not personal... I'm a researcher... and you posted something contrary to ::current research as if it were fact... I'm just trying to figure it out if it is valid...
:: geek that I am ;)
::1. Credentials - someone who researches in a field (Degreed or not, Peer or not) :: who is recognized by other researchers as doing "good" research.
::2. I give deference to Rank, but respect people only according to what I learn
:: from them and about them... I've never had the pleasure of discourse with your :: husband... and have heard nothing about any research he has done from any
:: Laurels I respect...nor other researchers I respect...
::3. SCA Rank has little to do with credibility in research or knowledge.
>>Words on e-mail are nothing without backup documentation...
>I'M SO SORRY YOU FEEL THAT WAY. I KNOW WHAT I OBSERVED, >WHERE I WAS WHEN I SAW IT AND I MERELY INTERJECTED MY >OBSERVATIONS INTO THE DISCUSSION. I'M SORRY YOU DON'T THINK I'M >TELLING YOU THE TRUTH. BUT, I WILL DO MY BEST TO FIND THE >"DOCUMENTATION" YOU SO EAGERLY SEEK
::Has nothing to do with how I feel...
::No one can use an e-mail from a casual observer as documentation in any ::academic forum...nor even as documentation in SCA A&S
::I believe that you are telling the truth...you saw what you saw... but from what I ::can discern from you've posted... (bright colours, whole cloth garment, etc) what ::you saw was a re-created garment and a re-created belt.
::It was someone's interpretation of the research they had at hand at a certain ::point. If it's the one I'm thinking of... it was created several years before a lot of ::the artifacts were re-examined and it was determined (as well as it could be) ::that the belts all had buckles... re-creations of many incomplete items (which ::most viking era textiles and leather fall under) are built according to the ::prevailing theory (or sometimes someone's pet theory) at that time... as new ::theories are found more solid or old theories are dismissed...re-created items ::are seldom updated...
>>So... Lady Isobel de Kirkbryde please provide more information...
>I''LL DO MY BEST. GIVE ME A LITTLE TIME TO SEE IF THE MUSEUM HAS A >WEBSITE AND CAN LIST THE ITEMS. I'LL ALSO SEE IF MASTER MICHAEL >CAN LOCATE THE PHOTOGRAPH WE TOOK AND POST IT FOR YOU TO >LOOK AT FOR YOURSELF. BTW, THERE WERE NO HOLES IN THE BELT >FOR A TANG. I REPEAT, IT WAS A REAL RING BELT AND NOT A BELT >WHERE THE BUCKLE HAD LOST ITS TANG.
:: As stated before... it is most likely a re-created item... and as such is not an
:: artifact... and is a conjecture of the maker and not solid evidence
:: I'd still like to get a bead on the item...and query the people who did the ::research for it
::whose Peerage and $5 will get her a cup of Latte at Starbucks ;)
>> L DeerSlayer
>Lady Isobel de Kirkbryde leanbh a Úna
>Guild Head of the Guild of St. Camillus de Lellis, Kingdom of Ansteorra
>V-Scribe Canton of Skorragardr
>Deputy Northern Regional Scribe
>Member of Clann Lochlan
>Member of Clann Haddock
>Member of House MOO
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