[Ansteorra] "Old School" fighters

Fri May 9 05:42:25 PDT 2008

Salut cozyns,

This discussion arises anew every year or two, in every kingdom.

I started attending fighting events in 1987 in Artemisian Atenveldt. At the time and in that place, two prominent schools held sway. In the next year, I watched as one of those styles fell away and a third came to prominence. By the time I was knighted in early 1991, the third style was already considered quaint. 

Over the years, I've noticed that the evolution of our combat styles has been prompted by several exigencies, some of which Count Gunthar outlined.

Armor. Generally speaking, SCA armour has progressed in leaps and bounds over the last forty years. The armourers have learned more, the Internet allows quicker sharing of that learning, and the overall interest in more authentic, lighter, more mobile, and safer armor. I remember seeing photos of tournaments from the early 70s: warriors wearing no leg armor and no neck protection and sporting some of the ugliest helms in creation.

Safety concerns. When I say safety concerns, I mean concerns with avoiding being struck anywhere that might injure, cause pain, or result in a loss. The Ansteorran evolution of barn-door shields and minimal armor also necessitated a more mobile style. Duke Inman has said that a principal element of his style is to stay out of his opponent's range 90% of the time. Count Gunthar notes the inferior hand protection of the past. 

Conventions. Most sword-and-shield and two sword fighters in the SCA have long used cuphilts. A small cadre of purists has long argued that our cuphilts (and more to the point, our practice of blocking with them) is not only out-of-period for most of us but has a profound effect on our style. Similarly, although our martial art is closer to full contact than most, our convention that the lower leg is not a target dramatically alters our footwork.

Zen superstars. We've all known them--most of them are dukes: Inman, Paul of Bellatrix, Jade, Lucan, Brion, Tjorkil, Logan, Hoegaarden. No matter what these guys face, they immediately adapt and overcome without making significant changes to their basic styles. The rest of us are constantly challenged to match these guys, and many schools have arisen from the desire to emulate their examples. 

Age and fitness. The average age and weight of SCA fighters have both risen over the years. The older and heavier have to develop strategies to combat the young and spry.

At heart, though, there is an essential level in which what we are doing does not change. Your goal as a martial artist is to strike your opponent while avoiding your opponent's strikes. Bruce Lee, in his *Tao of Jeet Kune Do* says:

>>>>
Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just a punch, a kick was just a kick. After I'd studied the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch, a kick is just a kick.
<<<<

Und so weiter. Every warrior in the SCA starts out with the idea that a blow is just a blow, a block is just a block. After they've studied for a while, the variety of blows and blocks multiplies and bulges the warrior's mental inventory. One that warrior understands the art, a blow is just a blow, a block is just a block.

Cizt me doux sous.En Lyonel 
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Impedimentum via est (The obstacle is the path)

> From: countgunthar at hotmail.com> To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:11:09 -0500> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] "Old School" fighters> > > > Gunthar, I said "I'm sure they've picked up some new things..." didn't> > I? :)> > I didn't mean it to sound like I was tweaking you. I think my point> was more along the lines of that even though we fought using new> techniques, the FEEL of the fights were what we remember from> the younger days. Too often fighting seems more "professional" > or flashy over smashmouth power. > > > Fighting style is a living, breathing thing, yes? Always evolving.> > Still, there are some things about fighting in general that always seem> > to come out on top when used vs. other techniques.> > Of course. Physics is physics. Fighting has changed for a couple of> reasons. The first being that armor standards have improved. We used> to fight with our hands back behind our heads not only to generate power> but because hand protection was negligible to non-existant. > Body armor, especially in Ansteorra was pretty minimal as well. > As our hands became pretty well invulnerable we became more inclined> to bring them forward. > Shield styles have varied for years with one or another style becoming> popular at the time.> > Fighting also changed to counter the superior style at the time. Big shields> became common, then bigger shields, then fighters discovered they could> beat big shields with smaller ones. Backyard style became dominant then> Inman developed moves to counter Backyard which then developed moves> to counter Inman boxing style, etc....> > Although other fighters use the right foot forward stance, mine is a bit different> and is one figured by Inman so as not to have to move so much. You know, for> us older folk. :-)> BTW, Inman is now doing some of his old stance and moves and remembering> how fun it was and is still kicking butt.> > > I'm not saying they *always have and always will* because different> > tools work differently for everyone. > > I totally agree.> Just because my fighting style works for me does not mean it will work> for my students. Each takes what works and adapts.> > >I just know that it has been a very long time> > since I've been awed by a kill that came from a fancy new technique.> > Most of the time I see kills from the same shots we've been using for> > decades.> > With so many fighters training several days a week all over the world,> I do wonder if there are any "new" techniques to be found. Or are they> old techniques being used in a new way. > > > I know you work very hard to add new things into your fighting style,> > and I definitely wouldn't ever want to devalue that effort... but you> > can't convince me that these *new* things are the reason you've made it> > to the finals in god-knows-how-many Crown Tournaments. > > They help. I have had to change my fighting as my body changes. No longer> can I get away with the "Vaseline Covered Helm" and slip shots or rely> on quickness. I'm slower now with less endurance. I've had to develop my> fighting and make changes. You are correct in that my fighting is still> basically "Gunthar" and I do use the skills developed in nearly 25 years> in armor. But now I'm learning to put those combinations together in > different ways. > > >you can take the boy out of the old school, but> > you can't take the old school out of the boy.> > Trust me, I'm old school. You should hear me in the Belted Circle.> > > ~ Kat>^.,.^<> > Just Ol' Gunthar> _________________________________________________________________> With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you.> http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008> _______________________________________________> Ansteorra mailing list> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
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