[Ansteorra] The Prince

[donpieter at aol.com]

Color me confused. First two lines "i find the writer to be stupid.He didn't know anything." Then further on we get gems like "I think the section on foreign mercenaries and their uses should be read by every person who thinks being an mercenary is a good idea.", "I know a lot of Americans think the book is horrible but it does have some really good advice.", "The Prince was one of the first books to ever talk about how someone who could get communities and large groups of people to follow him..." So which is it? Do you think Machiavelli was stupid or not since you feel he gives good advice. The Prince can be a tough read in parts just as his book "The Art of War" but has a historical look into period politics and mid to late period battle design they seem like sound books to me.

Don Pieter Rausch






-----Original Message-----
From: willowdewisp at juno.com <willowdewisp at juno.com>
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Sent: Fri, Feb 26, 2010 6:17 am
Subject: [Ansteorra] The Prince


i find the writer to be stupid.He didn't know anything. He really thought the 
rince he was writing about would be pleased to have some of his techniques 
rought out in the open.
t the first Crown list  Countess somebody who will go nameless except she was 
he Steward of the BOD asked loudly to one of my brothers "Does she study "The 
rince" every night?" and my brother replied as loudly, "No, she communes from 
he Borgia and gets the information right."
 think the section on foreign mercenaries and their uses should be read by 
very person who thinks being an mercenary is a good idea. There are some other 
eriod writings that gives advice on how to handle mercenaries The one I most 
emember isn't in "The Prince" but sticks in my mind. "Make sure to paid your 
ercenaries after the battle because if you plan it right they will be all dead 
nd you won't have to pay them."
 know a lot of Americans think the book is horrible but it does have some 
eally good advice. One part I think is often not listened to is if you do 
omething really underhanded don't brag about it.  I have often heard SCA 
oliticians talking to someone in the general populace bout how they got over 
omeone. "The Prince" warns about talking to much. As a Pelican I feel like I 
hould immediately give a class to the people on stupid behavior and inept 
olitics. 
hat makes this so stupid is often no ones knows they were hood winked. When it 
ets out and it Will get out because they are talking in a public place where 
ots of people heard them the general populace gets hurt because they thought 
he person was one of the "good guys" and their dreams are broken. 
Back in my youth I thought that it was my duty to warn people about political 
echniques that could be used to hood wink people. My first degrees is in 
ociology and Small group politics was my area of interest. This was a mistake 
ecause in America people "don't do politics" and politics are bad.  I also 
hought that if I went up and asked permission to do something and got an OK to 
alk to people and see if they would go along with me and didn't use any razzle 
azzle politics I would be able to get some stuff done. In both cases I was 
rong.
n the first case because I was talking about what they should watch out for and 
hat would help them communicate with others they thought me "a power hunger 
onster".  In the second case I just scare everyone and they kept looking for my 
idden reasons. "The Prince" warns us about talking about what we are doing". I 
hould of listened to him. Haven't you seen a lot of successful SCA politicians 
ho state often and loudly "I don't do politics". 
I find it ironic that over the years I have taught people techniques and they 
re thought pure and noble and in reality it is because they do successful 
olitics that make many people happy and doesn't have a lot of ill feeling 
allout because it is done well. Most of what we call "bad" politics is just ego 
ased sloppy politics. 
n the real world I have been called on to help groups or organize groups and I 
rained them to get things done within and without their organization. I have 
one it as an volunteer and sometimes as a badly payed professional but they 
ecognized that these techniques are tried and true. Social scientist have 
tudied these methods and best as can be supported them. I worked with Dr. 
arsaw in Alabama and when he went into corporation and helped him with his 
esearch and that was all that he did. Get big bucks to tell people how their 
mall group politic were messed up.
he Prince was one of the first books to ever talk about how someone who could 
et communities and large groups of people to follow him and while the writer 
as on the outside and could only observe some things he did state somethings 
bout the system that made people believe in the system and it gives us insights 
nto the workings of a system based on kings. 
illow
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