[Ansteorra] Indoor Fighting, was Re: Ansteorra Digest, Vol 51, Issue 13

[Ysabeau]

I'm not sure it was a typo or not, but I believe the full and correct quote
from Wikipedia is:
*Machismo* is prominently exhibited or excessive
masculinity<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculinity>
.[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo#cite_note-0> As an attitude,
machismo ranges from a personal sense of virility to a more extreme male
chauvinism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_chauvinism>. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo)
 Followed by:
The English word "machismo" originates in an identical
Spanish<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language>and
Portuguese <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language> word, which
however has a somewhat different meaning. Spanish and Portuguese
*machismo*refers exclusively to the belief in the superiority of males
over females,
that is it means "sexism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism>" or "male
chauvinism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_chauvinism>" (along with the
Spanish and Portuguese adjective *machista*, "sexist" or "male chauvinist").
[5] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo#cite_note-4> *Machismo* itself
derives from Spanish and Portuguese *macho*, coming from the Latin masculus
"male [animal]" or, when used metaphorically,
"masculine<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculine>"
or "very masculine."[6] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo#cite_note-5>

*In the Urban Dictionary*:
Spanish word. I don't think there's a direct english word translation. 1.
Having an unusually high or exaggerated sense of masculinity. Including an
attitude that aggression, strength, sexual prowess, power and control is the
measure of someone's manliness. Also, a machismo man feels having these
traits entitles him to respect and obedience from men and women around him.
2. The belief in the right to dominate and control, including, but not
limited to, control over women.

*In Visual Thesaurus* - Exaggerated masculinity; the trait of behaving in
ways considered typical of men.

*Websters* - *1* *:* a strong sense of masculine pride *:* an exaggerated
masculinity
*2* *:* an exaggerated or exhilarating sense of power or strength

And while none of these specifically refer to bullying, domination, and
pointless aggression, those are the typical ways that machismo or male
chauvinism is expressed in many cultures around the world because that is
the way a macho man demands respect and obedience from those around him. It
isn't a flattering term unless you are from a culture where this type of
behavior is expected from men. Last time I checked, it isn't expected of the
men (or women) in the SCA.

Just saying,
Ysabeau
(who also collects quotes and thinks "Never pick a fight with someone who
buys ink by the barrel" is pretty apt for this entire conversation)




On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Richard Threlkeld <
rjt at softwareinnovation.com> wrote:

> > 2) Macho: Means characterized or driven by Machismo.  Machismo is a
> degenerate honor code.  It emphasizes swagger, bullying, domination of
> women, and pointless aggression.  We shoot for chivalry in the Society.
> There is a gross difference, and "machismo" or "macho" is an insult.
>  Perhaps out of ignorance, but an insult none the less.
>
> > Lord Ioannes Dalassenos
> > the increasingly impatient
>
> A quick look online yields the following.
>
> Macho
> The property of being overtly masculine, from the Spanish word Machismo
>
> Machismo
> Machismo is a prominently exhibited or excessive masculinity.[1] As an
> attitude, machismo ranges from a personal sense of virility to a more
> extreme masculism. In many cultures, machismo is acceptable and even
> expected.
>
> I would find either of these not an insult. It does not mention bullying,
> domination, and pointless aggression.  Your definitions of Chivalry and
> courtesy are based on your strawman scenarios. I suggest Macho, machismo,
> chivalry, and courtesy are much deeper than your characterizations imply.
> Choose your champion..... :-)
>
> Caelin
>
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