[Ansteorra] A lighter moment, brought to you by the foreigner.. Re: Nitpicking Angry Folks (WAS: Indoor Fighting)

Tue Jul 13 17:20:40 PDT 2010

Nothing to worry about, just a moment of weakness. Good to hear you have the 
rematch coming up William.
I shall now go back to TRYING to ignore the futility of the current threads

Indeed people are people and that's always a mixed blessing.

Michel (returning to quick delete mode)

________________________________
From: Bill Tait <arwemakere at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 6:40:55 PM
Subject: [Ansteorra] A lighter moment, brought to you by the foreigner.. Re: 
Nitpicking Angry Folks (WAS: Indoor Fighting)

And now, good Michel, am going to take mock-offense at that. I have
successfully argued with not only stone walls, but also wet paper bags,
windmills and a dead horse (had to use a stick on that one).

The rematch with the paper bag is coming soon, and I'll be in better form
next time!

It's heartening to learn that the habits I find on my own Kingdom list
regarding quick tempers and misunderstandings is not unique to my soggy
corner of the world...

Thus spake Depeche Mode:
People are people...

William Arwemakere
Yes, that William

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Mike Gideon <mg1m at swbell.net> wrote:

> And then there are of course those people that would argue with a stone
> wall,
> and REALLY enjoy it.
>
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: SoldierGrrrl <soldier.grrrl at gmail.com>
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 6:27:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Nitpicking Angry Folks (WAS: Indoor Fighting)
>
> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I think it's pretty crazy that people are picking apart the etymology of
> a
> >single word in order to make it seem like I was using the most negative
> >definition in order to insult people. I'm fairly sure that if I wanted to
> insult
> >someone, I could do so in a way that wouldn't leave any questions about my
> >intent. :P
>
> That's because, when tone, inflection and body language are missing,
> the meaning of the words you use has a greater meaning.  Welcome to
> the Internet.  If you don't mean to use a word that has negative
> connotations, then don't use it.  If I use the word "gimp" to refer to
> a paraplegic friend of mine, someone who is disabled has every right
> to call me on the usage, and I don't get to say "oh, well, I didn't
> *mean* to be offensive!"  Even if Carol uses the word in reference to
> herself.
>
> I can call myself crazy, and I may not mind if someone else does, but
> I don't get to tell people who do find the phrase crazy to be
> offensive when dealing with those of us with PTSD, depression, etc,
> offensive.  Sorry.
>
> > Some are you are fairly angry (and some of you got that way QUICK) and,
> > if you are, I suggest that you remove yourself from the thread. Remember,
> the
> >SCA is about fun, and it's not very fun if your head explodes. Plus, it's
> messy.
>
> Nope.  It doesn't work that way.  You don't get to "suggest" we shut
> up and go away after the kerfuffle has started.  Sorry.
>
> You don't get to say "well, if you're mad, you should just step away."
> Not even after you give a condescending little pat on the head.
> Sorry.
>
> > I've seen the Urban Dictionary 'definition' and that's absolutely not
> what I
> >meant. I can see how there can be some confusion between definitions, so
> why not
> >ask me, instead of looking for the worst definition? Next, that definition
> >doesn't even makes sense in this context, unless someone really
> > thinks that I think that fighting in the worst heat is a trait of a man
> who
> > wants to dominate and control women.
>
> No, but it's part and parcel of a societal definition of "macho."
> Again, if it's not what you meant, why did you use the word?  Why did
> you not find a more precise way to express yourself, rather than use
> an imprecise word and then wonder why some folx took issue with it?
> Especially for those on the list who had grown up on the wrong side of
> communities where "machismo" was a way of life?  I know that there are
> those out there that, when they are called "macho", will actually walk
> away from the person because of experiences in their past...  They
> want nothing to do with being considered "macho" because of those
> experiences.
>
> > No, when I used the word
> > 'macho' , I was attempting to describe our fighters, who enjoy
> > prominently exhibiting their masculinity and prowess, even when it
> > isn't very smart to do so. Is that the nicest thing that I can say
> > about someone? Nope. But my part of this conversation wasn't about
> praising
> > people, it was about addressing a problem. Problems are usually
> > negative things, and sometimes require descriptive words with negative
> > connotations. I stand by that description.
>
> Wow, if that's the description you wanted to give, then that's what
> you should have written.  Again, words have meaning, especially in
> written form when nonverbal cues are lost.  If you choose to use a
> word KNOWING it has negative connotations, then why are you surprised
> when people react negatively to it?
>
> > I'm sorry if my words were misunderstood, or if anyone is insulted by the
> >actual intent of my words (and not what other people assume is my intent).
> I'll
> >try to be more careful with descriptives if y'all promise to start asking
> people
> >what they mean instead of assuming that they mean something bad.
> Especially in
> >writing, where there's no tone.
>
> Then perhaps you should also consider that using inflammatory words,
> especially in the course of  nitpicking at people for their "macho
> bone going 'ting'," might not be the best idea.  Also, as a woman, I
> dislike being called macho.  I'm not.  I'm strong, confident, smart
> and probably bitchy, but not macho.  So, I'll take offense at the word
> being applied to me, other female fighters may or may not.  It's up to
> *them* to decide if they find insult in the word, not me, and not you.
>
> > About titles: I find it pretty presumptuous to assume that people should
> visit
> >an entirely different website just to find out my name. When this is
> paired with
> >the fact that some people, from Dukes to Ladies, prefer to be called by
> their
> >name, and /not/ by their titles, it does make more sense to call people by
> the
> >name that they list. In Robin of Gilwell's case, he simply signed 'Robin
> of
> >Gilwell', just as Lord Ioannes signed his name as 'Lord Ioannes'.
>
> Titles are a recognition of who and what we are in the Society.  It's
> a way of identifying those folx who have been recognized for their
> contribution, as you were recognized when you were awarded your AoA.
> Peerage means a group of people who uphold the ideals of the Society
> have seen peer-like qualities in an individual.  In Master Robin's
> case, he is also a Lion of Ansteorra, which means rather a lot and
> gives his words a great deal of weight.  To give you some idea, Lions
> may enter Court unbidden and unasked and may speak freely.   That
> should give you an idea of the prestige of those who are Lions.  Robin
> is also a great storyteller, and holds so many memories of the
> beginnings of our kingdom in his head that he's quite fascinating to
> talk to.
>
> > Last, I haven't insulted Don Robin's wife, although both he and his wife
> have
> >insulted me many times. Even if I had insulted them, I'm pretty sure the
> >chivalric response to an insult wouldn't involve 'punching someone in the
> face'.
> >Anyway, my point is that I haven't intentionally insulted them, and they
> have
> >intentionally insulted me. It sucks. Move on. I don't see that it involves
> >anyone else, anyway, and I prefer not to hold grudges. (That whole
> explode-y
> >head thing.)
>
> Robin's wife has not insulted you.  She has not commented at all.  The
> wife Ioannes mentioned you insulting?  That would be me, which is why
> he used the phrase "my wife."  The feminine of Dalassnos is Dalassene.
> They're rather related, although I'm not sure who's familiar enough
> with Greek surnames to really catch that.  And I didn't ask him to
> take offense on my behalf, but he has.
>
> In any case, I'm done responding to you, in specific, about this
> topic.  You may consider this a victory if you wish.
>
> For those gentles on the list whom I may have insulted unknowingly, my
> apologies.
>
> Helene Dalassene
> Hellsgate
> --
> I've asked forgiveness from the Lord, now take my soul, and bring my sword.
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