[Ansteorra] Candlemas tomorrow

Bill Tait arwemakere at gmail.com
Fri Feb 4 17:09:47 PST 2011 

greetings

> I have never met a Crown that was so tacky as to reject and turn their 
> noses up at a gift they receive.<

didn't say they had turned their noses up , just that the way it is written 
it sounds that way.
>>>> Dislikes: Please, refrain from gifting the following
>>>> BASKETS- Their Majesties have a whole room full of baskets. Haversack
>>> bags work well to present items in.
>>> Store bought items
>>> Machine-made trim
>>> canned food
>>> food
>>> candles
>>> non-period jewelry
>>> potpourri <

while I can see the reasons for not sending candles, or food ( especially in 
ansteorra )
everything has an appropriate time and place as a gift.
baskets - kids love baskets especially if they have things in them, if you 
have too many baskets give things away more often, even if your just giving 
the empty baskets as gifts to like the people that just cooked you an 
amazing feast ( lots of people help do that cooking , not just the " 
featured " feastocrat, that's a lot of baskets gone )
store bought items -   ( note :  this is the society for " creative " 
anachronism , not the society for " compulsive authenticity  " , that means 
that you are going to see store bought items a lot . ) again , kids aren't 
as picky as some adults, a gift is a great thing , especially if they are 
told what they did to earn that gift . many things can be bought that from 
fairly close ( unless your a laurel in that item ) look period, and any 
nubie would love as an addition to their meager possessions.
machine made trim - as was stated earlier , some people prefer machine made 
trim, also , how many nubies ( and some not so nubies as well )  would kill 
for " any " trim to add to their " basic t-tunic " and sweat pants starter 
garb ??
non period jewelry - again , see all of above
potpourri - some forms aren't period,or possibly good for travel ( the glass 
bottled diffuser oils , or liquid wax types come to mind ) but the plant mix 
,flower petal stuff is better than spraying the canned air freshener inside 
the tent / pavilion that was put away damp and has that clinging musty 
smell.
so " every " gift has a use , not just the expensive ones you would give for 
like making a peer , or gifting a visiting crown / peer / etc., or taking to 
give away at war.

>> When I make something I like for it to be something that is actually 
>> used. <

that's why I make regalia , or other items like the leather northkeep bard 
book cover.
I know that who ever gets it will use it and appreciate it , and the work 
that went into it.
I know this because I have seen most of the 2 dozen some odd people receive 
the regalia , and saw them inspecting the book cover .

stay warm
Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
Arthur
 again just my opinion , ymmv


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Copley" <doug.copley at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Largesse gifting


> @Eve - Very well said!
>
> I know I have been guilty of not wanting to pay some of the prices for 
> handmade stuff but I should know better since I make a lot of things 
> myself and if it was truly priced correctly it would be very expensive. I 
> too have people that do the same to me and want me to spend 10 to 15 hours 
> working on something to give to them. I prefer to help teach people how to 
> do it or work a trade of some kind.
>
> I believe that you are correct that the crown can use all manner of gifts 
> and that those gifts will be welcomed by whoever receives them. I gave a 
> basket for a Combat Archery shoot that included multiple rolls of duct 
> tape and some ointment for those times when the archery tried to run and 
> the fighter clubbed them for it:-) The recipient loved it and it was all 
> stuff he could use. I know it was not as cool as something that I could 
> make but it was something that he could use and was not something that 
> went home and got put in a box or left on a shelf to sit for the next 5 
> years.
>
> When I make something I like for it to be something that is actually used. 
> Giving a gift to the Crown of either handmade stuff or store bought stuff 
> is very helpful. I trust the Crown (and their ever helpful entourage) to 
> understand the importance of giving something to the person that is 
> appropriate and will be something that they will actually use.
>
> I took the list to be more of a list of suggestions and not a list of 
> demands or that they would not accept certain things. I have never met a 
> Crown that was so tacky as to reject and turn their noses up at a gift 
> they receive.
>
> YIS,
> Vincenti
>
> On 2/4/2011 9:59 AM, Bree Flowers wrote:
>> Beware, rant coming, turn away if you don't want to read whining from
>> a craftsperson.
>>
>> You know where my personal objection comes from... first of all, some
>> people don't have skillz but want to donate and this leaves them with
>> few options, and my second point would be that if all royals ever want
>> is handmade stuff from artists, it puts a lot of pressure on artists
>> to keep "donating" stuff to make the people on the thrones look good.
>> Thrones that I might add, can't be won by making stuff. Yes, I have a
>> problem with how royalty is selected, and that ultimately fighters
>> outrank everyone else, and this is just another place where my
>> annoyance materializes.
>>
>> I don't like the *expectation* of handmade items as gifts because, as
>> someone pointed out, even ignoring material costs, just the time
>> involved to make this stuff makes it pricey, and when people see it
>> being given away for free, there is a tendency to devalue it. As a
>> society (modern Western society, not SCA) we have a hard time properly
>> valuing handmade items already. We balk at paying $1000 for an oil
>> painting because we can get a reproduction poster for $10, or we want
>> to pay local artists the same kinds of wages for their work as the
>> people we exploit in 3rd world countries, where they just have to keep
>> up with 3rd world food and housing prices. And in speaking to SCA
>> merchant artisans the most oft-heard comment they hear in their booths
>> is "I could make that", to which the response in their heads that they
>> never dare voice aloud is always "yes, but will you?", and this
>> opening often is a lead-in to aggressive bartering. We all want to pay
>> Wal-mart prices for handmade goods, and I'm sure I've been guilty of
>> this too. We (me included) don't treat our artists very well.
>>
>> Finally, I hate to admit it, but there is a large range of preferences
>> in our society. I know a lot of people who turn their noses up at my
>> handmade trim and drool over the offerings at Calontir trim. Mine
>> isn't sparkly, and they have a thing for dogs, flowers, stars or
>> whathaveyou. And don't even get me started on the number of people who
>> believe that crushed velvet, in all its modern stretchy glory, is just
>> the best thing since sliced bread, or that wench bodices and
>> drawstring chemises are the most sexy and comfortable things that one
>> could ever wear to an event. If you gave those people handmade trim
>> and a length of fine linen I'm not sure they'd even know what to do
>> with it, much less enjoy the gift. Why not have a collection of stuff
>> in your stash that they'd like?
>>
>> end rant
>> ~Eve
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 9:17 AM,<alpage1225 at sbcglobal.net>  wrote:
>>> You are missing the point of this entire message.  Royals post gift 
>>> "wish lists" on the Kingdom web pages to provide guidelines for gifts 
>>> TRMs will be giving or would like to give to people in other kingdoms on 
>>> their kingdom's behalf.  This is not a wish list of gifts they would 
>>> like to receive personally.  When giving a basket to the King and Queen 
>>> of another kingdom, you certainly want the best of your artisans' 
>>> talents in that basket,
>>>
>>> Countess Elizabeth Seale
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 2/4/11, Ld.blackmoon<ld.blackmoon at cox.net>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Ld.blackmoon<ld.blackmoon at cox.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Largesse gifting
>>> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."<ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
>>> Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 2:22 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> greetings
>>>
>>> more than a " little tacky " if they are puting out a list of what they 
>>> want as " gifts" to keep.
>>> if they are making that list to gather things to put in gift baskets for 
>>> other kingdoms , or even as a " good job" or an " i'm impressed " 
>>> goodie, it was a good list up to the " dislikes" part .
>>> but from the way it reads , it says its for largess, but looks more like 
>>> a personal wish list , for their personal use, and not to be passed on. 
>>> ( room full of baskets )
>>> it's nice to show off the work your artisans can do, but to turn your 
>>> noses up at any gift is selfish and thoughtless.
>>> especialy in this economy, do they even know what custom hand made items 
>>> like they discribe are worth ? or perhaps thats the point ? just from 
>>> the hours put into most of that list the items would be expensive to buy 
>>> .
>>> but hey if their rich enough , or they think it will get their award 
>>> faster , who am i to nay say them : /  , i've heard its that way in some 
>>> kingdoms , very period really, but not what i'm used to in northern 
>>> ansteorra .
>>> Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
>>> Arthur
>>> just my opinion , ymmv
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bree Flowers"<evethejust at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."<ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:00 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Largesse gifting
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think the intent of the list is to provide the royals with largesse
>>>> that represents the skills of its artisans, not their shopping ability
>>>> ;) Or at the least provide gifts that are unique, and machine made
>>>> trim is decidedly not so. However, while I understand the intent of
>>>> the list, I am torn in thinking it is a little bit tacky to try to
>>>> dictate what gifts you receive. On one hand it is nice to know that
>>>> what you give will be well-received, but on the other hand, shouldn't
>>>> gift selection be up to the one doing the gifting and shouldn't the
>>>> recipient be thankful regardless?
>>>>
>>>> I used to gift royals with largesse (in another kingdom), but my
>>>> experience ranged from them being super grateful to forgetting it at
>>>> the event, and if it was passed along by someone else (collections of
>>>> gifties from a group) I never received so much as a "thanks" e-mail,
>>>> so I've decided I have better ways to use my time. In talking to other
>>>> artisans over the years (all over the known world) I don't get the
>>>> feeling that my experience or my decision is unique. I guess what I'm
>>>> saying is if you want artists to make you stuff, you'd do a lot better
>>>> writing thank you letters than request lists ;)
>>>>
>>>> ~Eve - who used to make stuff, but now seems to make nothing but
>>>> babies, and those make decidedly bad largesse
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:47 PM, Michelle Dodd
>>>> <lygabrielerdb at hotmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe An Tir is more picky, but I for one have never turned down a 
>>>>> gift of machine made trim.
>>>>> Some of it is beautiful. And most styles, if picked carefully, will go 
>>>>> with some period or other in our 'Dream' time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gabriele
>>>>>
>>>>> The pursuit of truth and beauty is a sphere of activity in which we 
>>>>> are allowed to remain children all our lives. (Albert Einstein)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: dookgunthar at hotmail.com
>>>>>> To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:47:52 -0600
>>>>>> Subject: [Ansteorra] Largesse gifting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I saw this on the An Tir Royalty page and I think it is a good 
>>>>>> guideline when
>>>>>> wanting to gift any Royals with largesse items.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Likes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Period Jewelry (belt buckles, cloak pins, brooches, hair pins etc)
>>>>>> Cast or Horn Needle Cases
>>>>>> Metal Worked Items (Torches, cooking tools, knives, hooks, tent 
>>>>>> stakes, portable holes)
>>>>>> Glass Items (cups, lampworked beads)
>>>>>> Wood worked items (buckets, boxes, lanterns, tables, benches, combs, 
>>>>>> bowls)
>>>>>> Cast Tokens to give as appreciation gifts
>>>>>> Spindles/Card weaving kits
>>>>>> Silk or Wool Banners
>>>>>> Wool Haversack bags
>>>>>> Handbound leather or wood books
>>>>>> Hoods/ Norse Caps/ Wool Hats
>>>>>> Fleeces/Furs
>>>>>> Pottery
>>>>>> Wool Cloaks with embellishment
>>>>>> Leather Pouches
>>>>>> Armor/Rattan
>>>>>> Handwoven trim or cord
>>>>>> Knit or nalbinding items (mittens, socks, hats)
>>>>>> Spices
>>>>>> Fabric yardage (wool, silk, hemp, or linen only)
>>>>>> Handmade soaps or bath salts (no strong scents)
>>>>>> Strings of beads (pearls, amber, jade, jasper, horn etc. Natural 
>>>>>> materials only.)
>>>>>> Period games
>>>>>> Sewing kits
>>>>>> Skeins of hand spun wool, silk or linen
>>>>>> Bone or antler items
>>>>>> Small handmade toys for children
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dislikes: Please, refrain from gifting the following.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BASKETS- Their Majesties have a whole room full of baskets. Haversack 
>>>>>> bags work well to present items in.
>>>>>> Store bought items
>>>>>> Machine-made trim
>>>>>> canned food
>>>>>> food
>>>>>> candles
>>>>>> non-period jewelry
>>>>>> potpourri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gunthar
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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