[Ansteorra] Questions regarding slings & Tavern Fights

[Stefan li Rous]

>> How does one determine what is a SCA Tavern Fight Legal Weapon?

I'm not sure what you mean by SCA Tavern Fight Legal Weapon. This is  
probably something okay'ed for a specific event.

Are you speaking of what I call SPDs (Silly Parrying Devices)? Often  
used in special rapier scenarios? I think these may be restricted to  
being defensive only weapons. But again ratan(?) daggers that are  
similar, used to be allowed in SCA rapier as secondary weapons but are  
now not allowed while flexi-daggers are now allowed. Maybe someone  
from the rapier community can add to this or tell where I am wrong.
SPD-msg (14K) 12/ 6/95 Silly Parrying Devices for SCA rapier combat

http://www.florilegium.org/files/COMBAT-RAPIER/SPD-msg.html

I'm assuming that you aren't talking about using slings in tavern type  
fights. I definitely would say that there isn't enough room in any  
tavern, period or SCA, to be able to actually use a sling effectively,  
except perhaps as a garrote. :-)

As to using an approved sling on the battlefield, just because  
something is "illegal" currently doesn't mean you can't get the rule  
changed. However, expect a long, drawn out fight against embedded  
interest groups.

Prove that the weapon is "safe", and that meaning seems to be getting  
more and more restrictive as time goes by, and get people interested  
in using it and maybe the rule will be changed. I'm unaware of any  
specific incidents that may have caused slings to have been disallowed.

Jousting from horseback used to be illegal in the SCA, but recently  
some folks in this kingdom did the research and provided sufficient  
evidence that  foam core lances could be used. They are working now on  
doing the same for balsa-cored lances. By the way, if the people  
involved in this effort would identify themselves and/or connect with  
me, I'd love to have some how-to/history article of these SCA-legal  
lances for the Florilegium.

Slings do take a fair amount of practice to use accurately and safely.  
Much more that say using a combat crossbow, both of which I've used.

I suspect that just using regular tennis balls would work just fine  
from a safety standpoint. They tend to be stacked in four-ball pyramid  
shapes for siege weapon ammunition, but that is to simulate much  
bigger rocks.

I'm not sure just how lethal a combat sling would have been against an  
armored knight in period. Most are familiar with the biblical David  
and Goliath story, but there wasn't as much armor there. But I believe  
they were used on the medieval battlefield even if mostly as lightly  
armored auxiliaries.

So the more research on how and when it was used and it's  
effectiveness on medieval slings would help.

What I believe Lady Runa was trying to simulate with the "small Nerf  
type footballs and duct taped" was the period sling "bullet" that was  
the same size and shape of these nerf type footballs, but made of  
LEAD. Now anyone who wants to put on their period style armor and let  
us sling some of those lead "footballs" at them, please contact us so  
we can arrange a demo somewhere. Especially if you are one to shrug  
off that these might have been real weapons. It will take us some time  
to locate and cast some of these "footballs" but I'm sure something  
can be arranged. :-)

And I would love to have a more comprehensive, organized article on  
the use of slings in our time of study, for the Florilegium. Right  
now, all I have is the collection of messages that you did find.

Even if not allowed immediately on the battlefield, I think it could  
make an interesting "thrown weapons" type competition.  If you are  
using real rocks, you might have to figure out how to keep mis-thrown  
rocks from injuring a bystander.

I could see arguments about slings being too dangerous to use in the  
SCA as a "thrown weapon" but not effective/dangerous enough to be used  
in SCA combat. Such is politics in the SCA.

Stefan

On Jul 29, 2011, at 1:21 AM, Bill Tait wrote:

> Slings are specifically not legal.
>
> From Society Marshal Handbook, VII A 13:
>
>
> 13. No missile weapons intended to simulate firearms, slings,  
> slingstaffs,
> nor Atlatl's can be used on the field
> of Armored Combat
>
> And in all honesty, a period-used sling was most lethal against  
> rabbits than
> armored fighters. (Except possibly to the face).
>
> I believe one of the reasons for disallowing slings is one of  
> safety. The
> cord could either enter a bar grille, or wrap around a throat.
>
> William Arwemakere
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Sher M <runa.herd at earthlink.net>  
> wrote:
>
>> I'm working on getting qualified as a combat archer (crossbow).   
>> However
>> (isn't there always one) I've been reading the Florilegium  
>> regarding slings.
>> Why can't they be used as either a primary weapon or a secondary  
>> weapon?
>> I've discovered I'm pretty good for first time sling user.  Could  
>> find
>> nothing about SCA legal "rocks" for slings so I got some small Nerf  
>> type
>> footballs and duct taped the dickens out of them turning them into  
>> a sphere
>> shape (i.e. more or less round).  I know what I can do with a rock  
>> but
>> figured if I threw a rock at an Armored Combat Fighter he/she would  
>> hit me
>> back, hard and over and over again.
>>
>> And if slings are legal to use on the field who would authorize you?
>> Thrown Weapons?  Siege Weapons?  Would the "rocks" have to be  
>> covered in
>> yellow duct tape?  What would be the minimum and maximum size/ 
>> weight limit?
>>
>> Which brings up another question.  How does one determine what is a  
>> SCA
>> Tavern Fight Legal Weapon?
>>
>> Lady Runa of The Thundering Herd (wannabe slinger)
>> Barony of Raven's Fort
>> Knight Marshal
>> Apprentice to Mistress Shanahan
>> Bronze, Tidal Thunder
>> Amazon Household

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****