[Ansteorra] Lawsuit, Children, Liability

Ld.blackmoon ld.blackmoon at cox.net
Tue Feb 7 22:33:07 PST 2012 

greetings

not trying to take sides in this discussion, but on one of your points, I 
would like to point out that even if the insurance companies had been 
willing to pay what they considered a " fair " amount , I'm pretty sure they 
would have filed something to delay that as long as possible if it had been 
7 million.
 also if the society as a whole is only guess timated to be worth 4 million 
, even with the insurance, there was no way to guarantee that a 7 million 
dollar award could have ever been paid. but the odds of getting the 1. 
whatever million in a timely fashion were very good, especially with the 
threat of bankrupting the entire sca inc. north America .( including all sca 
property held by all kingdoms and groups there in going on the auction 
block )  held over the bods head .
so it may very well have been a take what we can get now, and not wait on 
what we may never see in the future type decision for them as well.
people are funny  ( odd ) when it comes to money, you never know what they 
may do or not do....
besides, their legal fees were going up all the time as well .

as to wake up calls , I think there are way to many people that are afraid 
of change in the sca, and only expensive problems get their attention : (
but that's for another days discussion : /

just a different way to look at the possibilities presented...
Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
Arthur
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rose" <rose_welch at yahoo.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Lawsuit, Children, Liability


The West Crown has reported that each plaintiff will receive less than 
$25,000. (This is plausible if their representation was retained on a 
contingency plan.) If they were really after money, it wouldn't make sense 
for them to settle for this amount. If they were really after a change, 7m 
was a perfect wake-up call.



-Rose the Obnoxious



*      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      * 
*      *

Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium 
difficile. ~Hippocrates



>________________________________
> From: Bill Tait <arwemakere at gmail.com>
>To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 11:32 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Lawsuit, Children, Liability
>
>Ahh, but they were after 7M. That is punitive dollars.
>
>
>William
>
>
>On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 8:43 PM, L T <ldeerslayer at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> If it were really about money...they would have gone for punitive
>> damages...
>> 25,000 each sounds more like legal and counseling costs to me...
>>
>>
>> L
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Paul DeLisle <ferretpd at gmail.com>
>> To: 'Rose' <rose_welch at yahoo.com>; "'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'" <
>> ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 6:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Lawsuit, Children, Liability
>>
>> I disagree, Rose. This *IS* about money.
>> If it *weren't* about money, the settlement would be a Court-approved
>> modification to the SCA By-Laws.
>> I'm sorry to disillusion you, hun...but sadly...it *IS* about money (even
>> more sadly....mostly for the Lawyers.)
>>
>> Alden
>> (Disillusioned himself, more than a decade-and-a-half ago.)
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:ansteorra-
>> > bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Rose
>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 5:36 PM
>> > To: Ansteorra
>> > Subject: [Ansteorra] Lawsuit, Children, Liability
>> >
>> > Let's be clear about this:
>> >
>> > This case does not revolve around an isolated incident.
>> >
>> > This case does not revolve around a single perpetrator.
>> >
>> > This case was not brought by a single plaintiff.
>> >
>> > This case was brought by a group of plaintiffs, with their parents, who
>> > discovered that the SCA has a long history of abusers in leadership
>> roles.
>> > We're not alone; this problem is familiar to every organization that
>> deals
>> with
>> > a vulnerable populace.
>> >
>> > Unlike those organizations, we chose to do nothing. We didn't run
>> > background checks, we didn't require a two-deep rule, we rarely revoked
>> > memberships until a conviction was secure. We didn't even bother to 
>> > send
>> > out Society announcements when these revocations occurred, a measure
>> > that may have served to keep us on our toes and would have cost us
>> > NOTHING. Long after the Boy Scouts and similar organization developed
>> best
>> > practices to safeguard their children, we did nothing.
>> >
>> > Even after the Schragger case, where twelve children came forward to
>> report
>> > abuse, we made NO changes. We didn't update our policies until AFTER we
>> > were sued by six of children that Lord Ben the Steward, AKA the 
>> > 'Innocent
>> > Oak', had molested. That was the point of the suit.
>> >
>> > Do you still think that this lawsuit is about money?
>> >
>> > This lawsuit was about forcing the SCA to adopt standard best 
>> > practices,
>> > which we have done. Now that we have done so, we no longer carry the
>> > same amount of liability that we did before 2007. (And our liability
>> insurance
>> > already went up. Some of you folks are really behind the times.)
>> >
>> > The Innocent Oak. That is what the local populace called him and the
>> symbol
>> > that they crafted onto items that they sold to raise funds for his
>> defense.
>> > Even after his conviction, a reported thirty Scadians showed up to his
>> 'Going
>> > To Prison' party to wish him farewell. Since then, there have been
>> twenty-
>> > nine revocation and denial of membership decisions rendered by the 
>> > Board
>> > of Directors for conviction of predatory crimes. Twenty-four of these
>> have
>> > been with regard to abuse of minors.
>> >
>> > Again, let me ask. Are you still thinking about the money?
>> >
>> > I'm not. I'm thinking about a culture of abuse that we allowed to 
>> > fester
>> in our
>> > Society, that contributed to the molestation of at least a dozen
>> children.
>> > Eighteen percent doesn't seem like a very large payment to rid 
>> > ourselves
>> of
>> > that particular ailment, and it is worth noting that it would have been
>> > significantly cheaper - in gold and in blood - had we simply seen to 
>> > the
>> issue
>> > when the first symptoms erupted.
>> >
>> > Blaming the children for a lawsuit that centered around the non-actions
>> of
>> > adults is stupid. Working to punish children in the future for an issue
>> that was
>> > corrected in the past is even more stupid.
>> >
>> > And that's my tuppence.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Lady Rose the Obnoxious
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *   *   *   *
>> *   *   *   *   *
>> > *   *   *   *
>> >
>> > Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum,
>> iudicium
>> > difficile. ~Hippocrates
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
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