[Ansteorra-archery] Survival of Combat Archery

Tue Feb 10 10:52:35 PST 2009

Sir Guy, Honorable Lords and gentles all,

I absolutely understand that our knights by and large support CA. And all Ansteorran archers should as well. Sir Lyonel has posted to the SCA Missile Combat list supporting us, I know personally of Duke Aaron and Duke Ulsted and their support. Sir Alexis has crossbowmen in his Blue Company so of course not all knights in or out of this Kingdom oppose archery. And I did not post to the list to stir up trouble. I just think we need to get an idea of our numbers so that we can come up with effective tactics for the ravine. 

The Midrealm has declared for Trimaris. I believe that Calontir will as well. So that means two units carrying scutums that will need breaking. I believe that we, the archers, are best suited for that. Baron Michel is our commander this year and I would like to give him the tools to state what the archers can do for Ansteorra in the ravine when asked. 

EdV

 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me

To: ansteorra-archery at lists.ansteorra.orgDate: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:42:06 -0500From: guylestran at aol.comSubject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Survival of Combat ArcheryPlease understand that not all Knights are against it.I see Combat Archery as a part of war and in every Kingdom in which I have had a part in the Armt Structure I have created an Archery Captain postion.There is however a very vocial group to include some knights that feel as Mast Pug states.As a matter of fact this past Pennsic the Atlantian King gae out 4 Sharks Tooths(Atlantian award for valor/cool stuff on the field) to combat archers after they pretty much decimated the other side on one of Atlantia's end bridges.I have a crossbow that I use.Sir Guy-----Original Message-----From: ld.blackmoon <ld.blackmoon at cox.net>To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra <ansteorra-archery at lists.ansteorra.org>Sent: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:08 amSubject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Survival of Combat Archery

greetings 

master pug , it may be a quick and dirty version of the history, but a very accurate one it is indeed ; )
and much better written than my earlier reply.

be safe, be happy, have fun
arthur 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Pug Bainter 
To: 'Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra' 
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:05 AM
Subject: [Ansteorra-archery] Survival of Combat Archery
Good Morning,  I think there is something that a few of us have seen because of our rolesin the upper archery marshal arena, that the majority of the archers havenot. This viewpoint is one that gives new light onto some of the argumentswhen issues with Combat Archery come up. This is a very simplified historywith a lot of other arguments in between, but it gives you an idea.  Combat Archery was founded and there were very few archers, but they werehaving fun and kept coming back despite having their ammo destroyed all thetime because of the materials. In general the fighters are having a goodtime with it because there are so few archers that even the good ones canonly make a limited amount of difference to a major battle.  During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including Knightsthat are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It should bebanned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.  At some point early in my fighting career (about 10-11 years ago now),Combat Archery made a big leap in effectiveness on the battle field. Thiseffectiveness was due to two factors, the quality of the archers and thequantity of the archers. Because of this, the argument about combat archerynot being safe came up and APDs were created a year or so later. This causeda lot of combat archers to drop off the field because of the anger they hador the cost/hassle of getting their equipment up to standard.  During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including Knightsthat are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It should bebanned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.  This was fine for a couple years and then enough archers had switched tocrossbow because of the effectiveness and the quality and quantity ofarchers went up. Because of this, the argument about it not being safe cameup because of the complex rules and there being too many styles of ammo andAPD. This caused some angst and cost/hassle so some combat archers droppedoff the field.  During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including Knightsthat are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It should bebanned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.  There was a new design of Baldar blunts (eggs) that were sold withoutgoing through the proper approval process. This caused a lot of archers tospend money since they were very effective with the way they transferredenergy which meant that fighters called their shots more often. After goingthrough some testing, these were found to be unsafe and recalled. Thiscaused some angst and cost/hassle so some combat archers dropped off thefield.  During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including Knightsthat are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It should bebanned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.  Things settled down and archers came back to the field. This last year,there were incidents with the recall of the one piece Baldar blunts becauseof a design flaw as well as with some ammo at Pennsic that started anotherargument about the safety of Combat Archery. This caused several years worthof Baldar blunt purchases to be replaced, as well as all UHMW ammo to haveto add foam and meet previously non-existent maximum amounts of foam infront of the head rules. This caused some angst and cost/hassle but it lookslike it did not cause any combat archers to drop off the field. Matter offact, because of intelligently planning ahead and working with otherkingdoms there have been few enough changes to the Ansteorran combat archersin the last several years that I think we are getting more archers back onthe field.  During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including Knightsthat are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It should bebanned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.  There were lots of side arguments during all of this including some of myfavorites of just using plain UHMW heads without padding, getting rid ofweight limits on bows, and using golf ball heads without padding. As well,some of the Kingdoms weren't as well informed during the rules changes andtheir archers are having some problems now. There are a couple kingdoms thathave fairly light poundage on their crossbows and the most recent Societyrules changes has caused a fair number of the weapons to not be legalanymore and has probably caused their archers to be angry and incur morecost to get back on the field, if they do at all right now. Fortunately forus we paid attention to the data our marshals had gathered and knew that thechange would impact very few, if any, of our combat archers.  So for us, our Earl Marshal, our Archery Marshals, and our Crown, we haveto figure out how to be diplomatic and logical in our fight to keep combatarchery around. We have to take the moral high ground since anything elsewill just prove 'their' point. While we may not like it or understand why itreally matters in the long run, unfortunately it sometimes means only beingable to carry 15 pieces of ammo at a time in the ravine in order to haveCombat Archery at all in the ravine.  This is *not* to say that we just roll over whenever something stupidcomes out, but it does mean we have to be well informed about thecircumstances and plead a reasonable case and not an emotional knee jerkreaction. This will help combat archery to survive.  Btw, the vocal group of fighters and Knights against this is a very smallgroup, but they are so rabid about their argument that they can cause eventhe most pro-archery people to throw up their arms in surrender. I wastalking to a Knight about it just this weekend who had finally given upbecause of the way it was making him to react.Ciao,Pug BainterPhelim Gervase called PugDark Horde Moritu - Barony of Bryn Gwlad - Kingdom of Ansteorrapug at pug.net_______________________________________________Ansteorra-archery mailing listAnsteorra-archery at lists.ansteorra.orghttp://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-archery-ansteorra.org 

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