[Ansteorra-chirurgeon] Fwd: Re: [KC] Fwd: Please post to thechirurgeon's list

richard hall arkellvomcophus at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 9 11:42:14 PST 2005

Again We as KCs & the SCG have no answers, as the BOD has yet to include us in any of the discussions. And Again until an offical policy comes from the BOD or the SCG we go on with buisness as always.

Lancaster Community <lcai_lcai at yahoo.com> wrote:
Here, here. That makes a lot of sense. I did however
think that in medieval times that any guild or group
had apprentices, journeymen and then Masters. I still
have trouble understanding how they can take umbrage
at using those titles. Of course the peers do not
have the full guild names, they go from apprentice to
Master, or am I incorrect in that. 

Will we still be able to try to get donations of
supplies and share them with each other, or is that
not allowed either?

Annalies - Got a Warrant

--- Crandall wrote:

> The BOD cannot tell me what I can or cannot bring to
> events. Whether it is a level of knowledge or
> materials that save lives. 
> Only legal considerations or site owners can state
> that certain items are considered in bad taste or
> will get me in jail. And thus should not be present.
> There are those in the Chirurgeonate who save lives.
> We are trained to react. We will use the tools that
> are appropriate to the situation. We will save
> lives. 
> Their policy states: 
> "This policy shall be supported by not allowing the
> Chirurgeon's office to have in its possession
> advanced medical equipment
> such as medications, IVs, oxygen tanks, nebulizers,
> defibrillators, etc."
> (Their misunderstanding of the term: "advanced
> medical equipment" shows their ignorance.) 
> Fine with me. The Chirurgeon's office will not have
> them in their possession. 
> The BOD has not been trained in the Good Samaritan
> laws. 
> They also state: 
> "None of what is precluded above applies to what an
> individual with advanced training may decide to do
> under his or her own
> license and with their own equipment. The SCA has no
> authority over
> personal supplies." 
> Never will my personal supplies will be in the
> Chirurgeon's office possession. 
> The Chirgeonate attempted to use medieval terms to
> identify honors within the system. Making an attempt
> at authenticity is required by that same BOD. Heaven
> forbid that those who are Peers would feel
> threatened by our bureauocracy. Now, "Good, Better,
> Best" as titles would imply more than we want. 
> I suggest the following: 
> "Wanna Be" for those in training, both mundane and
> SCA procedures. 
> "Got A Warrant" for those who their fellows figure
> are trained. 
> "Atta Boy" for those who their fellows think they
> did really good for a long time. 
> Or along the same requirements:
> Serf
> Fleam
> Ol' Bag
> What I do want to happen is that the members of the
> misguided legal committee and their litigious
> families please identify themselves so that I know
> when I am treating them. 
> Crandall, Chirurgeon, Olde Foole
> "Carolle M. Cox" wrote:
> I'm sorry. What I see is an attempt by people who
> have no clue about first aid, pre-hospital care, or,
> g--forbid, true emergency management to manage and
> control people who do.
> I'm a rather opinionated floozey, and I know it, but
> who cares at all what 'people outside the SCA' think
> about what we call ourselves or each other? Gosh,
> if they're going to freak over 'master chirurgeon',
> what will they do about 'King'?? 
> This puts me in mind of a recent incident in which
> Chirurgeons of all 'stripes' responded to a possible
> heart attack call. That man is alive, wandering
> around SCA events today, because the responders
> applied every skill, prayer, and bit of expertise
> they had, and EMS was alerted quickly. Who on the
> BOD or anywhere else would like to go to that man's
> widow and tell her that, yes, we did have EMTs and
> Paramedics on site with medical-control permission
> to act; yes, we did have aspirin; but we're sorry to
> report that we can only do basic first aid, and so
> her life-long partner is dead? Right. At that
> point, our Legal Committee would have a whole lot
> more to worry about than 'master chirurgeon'!
> However. In time, this situation will get worked
> out. Every silly idea we as a Society have ever had
> has been worked out with the passage of time
> (witness pickle barrels). I, personally, will strip
> my kit of everything I am trained to use that would
> lead me to overstep basic first aid, leave the gold
> stripe on my baldric, and soldier on until things
> come to their senses. 
> May Hippocrates protect us all 
> Gerita
> DFWchinlovers at yahoogroups.com
> www.japanesechinrescue.org
> http://carollesknitting.blogspot.com
> People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle
> and shine when the sun is out, but when darkness
> sets in, their beauty is revealed only if there is a
> light from within. -- Elizabeth Kübler-Ross
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
ansteorra-chirurgeon-bounces+hpockets=verizon.net at ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-chirurgeon-bounces+hpockets=verizon.net at ansteorra.org]
> On Behalf Of richard hall
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:43 AM
> To: chirurgeon at att.net; chirurgeon at sca.org;
> kc at sca.org; chirurgeonate-ansteorra at yahoogroups.com;
> ansteorra-chirurgeon at ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Ansteorra-chirurgeon] Fwd: Re: [KC] Fwd:
> Please post to thechirurgeon's list
> Ok.
> I can see where they are coming from, to an
> extent. The BOD is all about covering their ass. 
> You and I both know that lawsuits have not happened
> at the rate that they COULD have happened. A lot of
> that is due to the waivers that are in place and due
> to the fact that the Chirurgeonate as a whole has
> been good at keeping "treatment" to a minimum and by
> providing good documentation. But, I think that
> they need to realize that people will sue for NOT
> giving treatment just as fast as for giving
> treatment. The AED issue is BS. If airports,
> malls, police cars, etc. have them for "John Doe" to
> use, why can't we? They are virtually idiot proof. 
> Try to explain why one was NOT used when available
> to a grieving spouse who just lost their
> husband/wife to a massive MI that could have been
> treated with early defib. 
> I can also see the logic (though I don't agree
> with it) behind the name change. In a way it does
> imply more training than others, even if we know the
> difference. But rarely does anyone we treat at
> events even know who is apprentice/Journeyman/Master
> anyway!! They just see the red baldric and couldn't
> care the difference in the "racing stripes."
> And it's BULLSHIT about changing the CHIRURGEON
> GENERAL's name to something else. WHY? Did
> somebody get jealous because our name is different
> than everybody else's? Jeez Louise. 
> You're right. Maybe I don't want to be KC after
> all. And you can tell Eleanor I said that! 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: richard hall 
> To: xaraxene at comcast.net ; caley/penny E ; Sue Delk
> ; chrisl at vvm.com ; Carolle M. Cox 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:02 PM
> Subject: Fwd: [KC] Fwd: Please post to the
> chirurgeon's list
> At this time this is FYI as the JKCs r refusing to
> put this out until we get some answers that we can
> give to all. so this goes nowhere Yet!!!!!
> Arkell
> B Carlock wrote:
> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:31:01 -0800 (PST)
> From: B Carlock 
> To: kc at sca.org, "bcarlock4 at sbcglobal.net"
> ,
> Jim Carlock , Galen Ockham
> ,
> Richard Threlkeld ,
> Therasia von Tux 
> CC: 
> Subject: [KC] Fwd: Please post to the chirurgeon's
> list
> Hello to all KCs. Ms. Cady, our Board Ombudsman,
> has sent this to me, requesting it be sent out to
> all Chirurgeons. I am sending it to you verbatim,
> and please forward it to your kingdom lists in its
> entirety. If you have concerns, comments,
> questions, 
=== message truncated ===>
> Ansteorra-chirurgeon mailing list
> Ansteorra-chirurgeon at ansteorra.org

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