[Ansteorra-chirurgeon] Contacting the BOD about pending policy changes to the chirurgeonate

richard hall arkellvomcophus at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 9 18:04:56 PST 2005

Dr. Cady,
As KC, I am forwarding from an open list group what I feel should be brought to the attention of the BOD, that serves the Society & the populace, not the other way around, on the feelings and beliefs of the segment of the populace that is affected by the statement that the BOD asked to be put out. And as Kingdom Chirurgeon it is my duty to make the BOD aware of how the populace feels about pending policy changes that affects them. And I have put the email directors at sca.org.  out for the populace to use.

Your orginal missive talked about more than just name changes to the chirurgeonate. And I cannot as a Kingdom Chirurgeon support changes being made that I feel & believe are not for the benefit of the populace and Society as a whole. 
At this time I feel it is the best intrest of the chirurgeonate and populace to continue to forward their feeling and beliefs to the BOD. 
And I would like to say that some of the statements in the original BOD missive are incorrect. As is some of your satements to me in the missive below (copied from below) "We have trained emergency medical care within minutes of our sites and have paramedics at our major wars", 'Today, we live in a world with easy access to advanced emergency medical care that did not exist when the SCA started". These are incorrect statements. We have sites in my Kingdom (Ansteorra) that can have up to 90 min response times for EMS. And many with 30 min response times. Also Gulf Wars does not have "Paramedics" on site for war. Several of the chirurgeonate on site are paramedics & EMTs, but we are not being paid to standby as such and work under the Chirurgeonate. There is no transport ambulance on site and it can take up to 30 mins for response. I also know of many sites in other Kingdoms with even longer response times that this. You can ask others of those kingdoms to comfirm this.
Quote from orignal letter "This is not allowed under the auspices of
the SCA, covered by insurance, or Good Samaritan protection as individuals
using them may not be trained or certified in their use" . One AED has beed cleared to be Over the Counter by the FDA and do not require any rx or Medical control. And the FDA is about to approve 2 more. And AEDs & O2 are Basic 1st Aid as defined by the fact that OSHA requires them at many job site as part of their basic 1st Aid now. As is epipens in many countries and are heading that way in many states. Note highlighted section below
>From Texas Good Sam
s 74.001. Liability for Emergency Care

(a) A person who in good faith administers emergency care, including using
an automated external defibrillator, at the scene of an emergency but not in
a hospital or other health care facility or means of medical transport is
not liable in civil damages for an act performed during the emergency unless
the act is wilfully or wantonly negligent.

drcady <drcady at cox.net> wrote:
Dear Mr. Hall,
I know that change of any kind is uncomfortable and will cause this kind of furor.  If people misunderstand the posting then they may write to me directly as the Ombudsman to the Chirurgeonate.  Please do not copy other people's postings to the director's list.  If someone wants to contact me they may do so directly.  
Limiting people to first aid when they are working as chirurgeons does not limit a trained professional from offering what care they have been trained, licensed or certified to do.  The SCA requires first aid training to be a chirurgeon so that is what the SCA provides as the level of care. We have trained emergency medical care within minutes of our sites and have paramedics at our major wars.  Having cell phones readily available is probably our most useful tool. The Chirurgeon's hand book already defines first aid.  This just adheres to the handbook, protects the SCA, and the chirurgeons.  

I am a medical professional.  I have been a nurse for 25 years. Prior to that I was an EMT.  I work in high risk Obstetrics at a major hospital and teach for a nursing school.  My profession and my own ethics demand that I will do all I can to help a sick or injured individual, including preventing others from incurring further risk to that person.   I am not a chirurgeon.  
I understand that the people who volunteer their time are well meaning, good hearted individuals.  The name changes should not change that.  As a Kingdom Chirurgeon I would hope you would support the changes being made.
Dena Cady
Director, SCA, inc.

Ansteorra-chirurgeon mailing list
Ansteorra-chirurgeon at ansteorra.org


From: B Carlock <bcarlock4 at sbcglobal.net>
To: kc at sca.org, "bcarlock4 at sbcglobal.net" <bcarlock4 at sbcglobal.net>,
Jim Carlock <j-carlock at att.net>, Galen Ockham <galen at chirurgeon.org>,
Richard Threlkeld <rjt at softwareinnovation.com>,
Therasia von Tux <no1home at onewest.net>
Subject: [KC] Fwd: Please post to the chirurgeon's list
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 17:31:23 +0000

From: "drcady" <drcady at cox.net>
To: <chirurgeon at sca.org>, <Bethcarlock4 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Please post to the chirurgeon's list
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 18:06:32 -0700

Unto the Chiriurgeons of the SCA, greetings.

The following will come to you from the Society Chirurgeon's office, but
the Board wants to offer some explanation for the changes.

The structure of the Chirurgeon's office needs to be more in line with the
other offices of the SCA. The titles presently used are somewhat confusing
and inaccurate. For example, the term 'Chirurgeon General,' while clever,
is inconsistent with other Society officers' titles (such as Society
Marshal). It also implies authority over more than the basic first aid
that the SCA provides. Additionally, the titles of Apprentice, Journeyman
and Master have connotations of a level of skill that the Legal Committee
is concerned pose significant legal risk to the SCA. It would not be
unreasonable for people outside of the SCA to assume that a Master
Chirurgeon has a higher level of medical training than a Journeyman or
Apprentice, which is not necessarily the case. Also, the term 'Master'
within the SCA usually indicates possession of a peerage-- confusion that
is not necessary. These are changes in name only. What the Society
Chirurgeon's office shall use for a new ranking system is to be

Remember that the SCA only provides first aid. Any advanced medical care
is not in the purview of the SCA and will not be performed as an official
function of any office of the SCA. Today, we live in a world with easy
access to advanced emergency medical care that did not exist when the SCA
started. The Chirurgeon's Handbook states the purpose of the Chirurgeons
clearly. We need to be careful not to promote the perception that the SCA
provides any care beyond what is required to earn a basic first aid
certification. This policy shall be supported by not allowing the
Chirurgeon's office to have in its possession advanced medical equipment
such as medications, IVs, oxygen tanks, nebulizers, defibrillators, etc.
The problem is not only in using these item, but in storing, maintaining,
cleaning and supplies for them. This is not allowed under the auspices of
the SCA, covered by insurance, or Good Samaritan protection as individuals
using them may not be trained or certified in their use. Having such items
present in the Chirurgeon's area of operations significantly increases our
legal risk and creates a perception that the SCA provides a higher level
of medical care than we are willing or able to provide.

The Board of Directors recognizes and applauds the volunteers who work
within the Chirurgeonate. You are skilled, well-meaning and dedicated
people. Many of you have advanced training and certification. The Board
appreciates that you donate your time and skills to make the SCA a safer
place to play. None of what is precluded above applies to what an
individual with advanced training may decide to do under his or her own
license and with their own equipment. The SCA has no authority over
personal supplies. However, we do have authority over the Chirurgeon's
office, and within the purview of the Chirurgeonate, the SCA only provides
basic first aid. If an injured participant requires more than basic first
aid, they must be referred to a medical facility. Chirurgeons who do more
than that do so at their own risk, and not as an officer of the SCA. All
of our large events should have paramedics and transport present.

The Society Chirurgeon is currently working on these changes and will pass
along further information. The Chirurgeon's Handbook will be revised to
reflect this. Again, these changes are being implemented out of necessity
to decrease risk to the SCA and its membership as a whole. This does not
diminish the Chirurgeons in any way; you are very important in making the
SCA events safer. This has been a long discussion with the Legal Committee
and is not a capricious change.


Dena Cady - Director, SCA, Inc.
Ombudsman to the Chirurgeon's office

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