[Ansteorra-missile] Clear the bow!

[Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair]

Eadric Anstapa wrote:
> Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair wrote:
>   
>> I just went out and grabbed some spare blue foam, and did some 
>> measuring.  What I'm calling a 2 layer and 3 layer tip is based on the 
>> number of layers of standard blue foam on the tip.  
>>     
> I don't think there is such a thing as "standard blue foam".  They vary 
> so much.  Some are 3/8" some are 1/2", some are more rigid, some less.   
> The rules says 1/2" for SCA minimum, 1" for Ansteorran, 3/4" for Gulf War.
>
>   
>> I just measured it, 
>> and 2 layers is 7/8"  just barely not enough to pass at 1", especially 
>> after you've shot something with it once.  To pass 1" I have to use 3 
>> layers of foam which is 1 3/8".  So no, I've never been hit with an 
>> actual 1/2" blunt.  Were the experiments you did with actual 1/2" and 1" 
>> of padding?  What were you using for padding?  Are we comparing apples 
>> and oranges?  I can see how an actual 1/2" padded blunt (just over 1 
>> layer of foam) would be considerably different.
>>   
>>     
> I used 1/2" foam and 1" foam since I was specifically testing impact 
> with the SCA minimum and the Ansteorran standard.  I buy from a 
> commercial foam supplier which you can find is almost any big city or 
> online.  I have tried many types and compared them for compression and 
> longevity.  I am currently using F-cell crosslinked polyethylene foam as 
> it has I think the best of what we need.  I buy it in 1" thick sheet for 
> making blunts and 1/2" thick for use in padding armor.
>
> You are correct it is important to compare apples to apples. One person 
> could buy really crappy 1" foam that might protect no better than 1/2" 
> of really good foam.
>
> A common blue foam camping pad is about 24 inches wide and 60 inches 
> long (many are smaller).  So thats 1440 sq inches and they cost about  
> $7 at Walmart.  So thats about half a cent per sq inch.  But ya need at 
> least 2 layers for a SCA legal blunt or 3 layers for an Ansteorran or 
> Gulf War legal blunt  so that takes ya up to a 1 cent for SCA legal or 
> 1.5 cents per sq inch for GW and Ansteorran legal.
>
> I buy 5ft x10ft sheets of 1" thick great quality crosslinked poly foam 
> for about $80.  So  7200 sq inches for $80  or 1.1 cents per sq ft.  I 
> only need 1 layer of foam so I come out about  4 tenths of a cent 
> cheaper for each sq inch  of Ansteorran legal  blunt.  I only need one 
> layer so there is a lot less labor involved because it is no more work 
> for me to punch out 1 layer than it is for you and you have to punch out 
> two or three times as many as I do.  You have more waste than I do 
> because you waste foam with every disk you punch out,  It's less labor 
> for assembly of the blunts because I only deal with one layer.  I use 
> good foam rather than what I can grab quickly at Walmart and I save 
> money, save time, and I get far better foam that lasts much longer.
>
> For the record  I didn't just test clay.  I stood out in my back yard 
> and Iaen Mor got to shoot me in the unarmored back with crossbows of 
> various poundages with various blunts.  Even if I couldn't see the 
> blunts coming at 600IP I always knew which one hit me by how much it 
> hurt.  I could tell an Egg Baldar from a Classic Baldar from 1/2" padded 
> from a 1" padded.  I could also tell by which bruises still hurt days 
> later and which healed the quickest.  At lower IP crossbows(say below 
> 500 IP) and with 30# longbows it was difficult to tell the difference in 
> a 1/2" padded blunt and a 1" padded blunt.  I only let him shoot me once 
> with a 1/2" padded blunt out of 1000IP crossbow before deciding that was 
> enough.  I am sure Iaen had fun...
>
> There were a couple of months there that people were sorta saying "Hey, 
> lets go over to Eadric's house and see what he wants us to shoot him 
> with today."   Ouch...
>
>
> -EA
By "standard blue foam" I was referring to the Walmart camping pads 
you're talking about.  The packaging says they're 1/2", but they're 
actually 7/16", so two layers will get you 7/8", more than the 3/4" 
required for GulfWars, but not the 1" currently required for Ansteorra, 
that takes 3 layers.

I realized during this discussion, that I was thinking of the 3/4" 
GulfWars standards, not the 1/2" SCA standards when I was thinking about 
how hard they hit.  I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to get hit with just 
a 1/2" blunt.  I know that in addition to GulfWars, Trimaris and 
Meridies also use the 3/4".  Do you think that 3/4" would be a good 
thickness for us to standardize on as well?  I would be happy to help 
you do your experiment again and shoot you a number of times with some 
3/4" bolts for comparison... all in the name of science of course =)

Also, If you're buying 1" foam, do you have to worry about it 
compressing under 1" after a while?  Where do you get your foam from?

Thanks,
Donnchadh