[Ansteorra-missile] Clear the bow!

[John Moore]

So far I haven't noticed much in the way of compression with the 1" foam 
that Eadric has been buying.  They have made it thru several melees here 
in kingdom and at least one Gulf War.  We just tore apart a bunch of 
arrows and bolts for repair and the crosslink poly seems to be holding 
up very well.  We may have to check some of them this weekend to see if 
there has been any compression.  I do know that the camp mat will 
compress fairly soon if you are not careful about how you put them 
together.  More experimenting it looks like. 

Iaen

Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair wrote:
> Eadric Anstapa wrote:
>   
>> Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> I just went out and grabbed some spare blue foam, and did some 
>>> measuring.  What I'm calling a 2 layer and 3 layer tip is based on the 
>>> number of layers of standard blue foam on the tip.  
>>>     
>>>       
>> I don't think there is such a thing as "standard blue foam".  They vary 
>> so much.  Some are 3/8" some are 1/2", some are more rigid, some less.   
>> The rules says 1/2" for SCA minimum, 1" for Ansteorran, 3/4" for Gulf War.
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> I just measured it, 
>>> and 2 layers is 7/8"  just barely not enough to pass at 1", especially 
>>> after you've shot something with it once.  To pass 1" I have to use 3 
>>> layers of foam which is 1 3/8".  So no, I've never been hit with an 
>>> actual 1/2" blunt.  Were the experiments you did with actual 1/2" and 1" 
>>> of padding?  What were you using for padding?  Are we comparing apples 
>>> and oranges?  I can see how an actual 1/2" padded blunt (just over 1 
>>> layer of foam) would be considerably different.
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>> I used 1/2" foam and 1" foam since I was specifically testing impact 
>> with the SCA minimum and the Ansteorran standard.  I buy from a 
>> commercial foam supplier which you can find is almost any big city or 
>> online.  I have tried many types and compared them for compression and 
>> longevity.  I am currently using F-cell crosslinked polyethylene foam as 
>> it has I think the best of what we need.  I buy it in 1" thick sheet for 
>> making blunts and 1/2" thick for use in padding armor.
>>
>> You are correct it is important to compare apples to apples. One person 
>> could buy really crappy 1" foam that might protect no better than 1/2" 
>> of really good foam.
>>
>> A common blue foam camping pad is about 24 inches wide and 60 inches 
>> long (many are smaller).  So thats 1440 sq inches and they cost about  
>> $7 at Walmart.  So thats about half a cent per sq inch.  But ya need at 
>> least 2 layers for a SCA legal blunt or 3 layers for an Ansteorran or 
>> Gulf War legal blunt  so that takes ya up to a 1 cent for SCA legal or 
>> 1.5 cents per sq inch for GW and Ansteorran legal.
>>
>> I buy 5ft x10ft sheets of 1" thick great quality crosslinked poly foam 
>> for about $80.  So  7200 sq inches for $80  or 1.1 cents per sq ft.  I 
>> only need 1 layer of foam so I come out about  4 tenths of a cent 
>> cheaper for each sq inch  of Ansteorran legal  blunt.  I only need one 
>> layer so there is a lot less labor involved because it is no more work 
>> for me to punch out 1 layer than it is for you and you have to punch out 
>> two or three times as many as I do.  You have more waste than I do 
>> because you waste foam with every disk you punch out,  It's less labor 
>> for assembly of the blunts because I only deal with one layer.  I use 
>> good foam rather than what I can grab quickly at Walmart and I save 
>> money, save time, and I get far better foam that lasts much longer.
>>
>> For the record  I didn't just test clay.  I stood out in my back yard 
>> and Iaen Mor got to shoot me in the unarmored back with crossbows of 
>> various poundages with various blunts.  Even if I couldn't see the 
>> blunts coming at 600IP I always knew which one hit me by how much it 
>> hurt.  I could tell an Egg Baldar from a Classic Baldar from 1/2" padded 
>> from a 1" padded.  I could also tell by which bruises still hurt days 
>> later and which healed the quickest.  At lower IP crossbows(say below 
>> 500 IP) and with 30# longbows it was difficult to tell the difference in 
>> a 1/2" padded blunt and a 1" padded blunt.  I only let him shoot me once 
>> with a 1/2" padded blunt out of 1000IP crossbow before deciding that was 
>> enough.  I am sure Iaen had fun...
>>
>> There were a couple of months there that people were sorta saying "Hey, 
>> lets go over to Eadric's house and see what he wants us to shoot him 
>> with today."   Ouch...
>>
>>
>> -EA
>>     
> By "standard blue foam" I was referring to the Walmart camping pads 
> you're talking about.  The packaging says they're 1/2", but they're 
> actually 7/16", so two layers will get you 7/8", more than the 3/4" 
> required for GulfWars, but not the 1" currently required for Ansteorra, 
> that takes 3 layers.
>
> I realized during this discussion, that I was thinking of the 3/4" 
> GulfWars standards, not the 1/2" SCA standards when I was thinking about 
> how hard they hit.  I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to get hit with just 
> a 1/2" blunt.  I know that in addition to GulfWars, Trimaris and 
> Meridies also use the 3/4".  Do you think that 3/4" would be a good 
> thickness for us to standardize on as well?  I would be happy to help 
> you do your experiment again and shoot you a number of times with some 
> 3/4" bolts for comparison... all in the name of science of course =)
>
> Also, If you're buying 1" foam, do you have to worry about it 
> compressing under 1" after a while?  Where do you get your foam from?
>
> Thanks,
> Donnchadh
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