ARN - Re: RN- Weapon grabbing and moulinettes

[Brent & Susan Rachel]

The applicable passage was right there in David Gallowglass's original quote:


> Some actions are not allowed because they are unsafe. These include:
>         Punching, kicking, shoving, tripping, throwing or grabbing an
> opponent or his weapons.
>

It says that "grabbing an opponent OR HIS WEAPONS..." is unsafe and thus not
allowed.  It doesn't get much plainer.

In case this is not enough:

Official Ansteorran Policy:  Grabbing blades, even heavier rapier blades such as
schlagers and del tins, is NOT allowed in this Kingdom.

The currently proposed rapier rules were provisionally accepted by the Board and will
become official after they have been published in TI.  The SCA Marshalate intends for
us to then have a 6-month "phase in" period for the Kingdoms to change their rules
accordingly.

On the idea of Moulinettes..., attacks that are delivered with a hacking motion are
illegal.  Whereas it may be argued that the moulinette simply places the weapon into
position for an attack by utilizing a hacking motion, this allowance is questionable
in my mind.

In a perfect world, if we were both standing still, or ONLY the attacker was moving,
then such a moulinette would work perfectly to position the tip of the blade for a
cut.  However, with both opponents moving, there is GREAT chance that the arc of the
blade during the moulinette will end in edge contact with the body of the opponent..,
making it a "hack", and unsafe.

Right now, I am content to wait and see as some folks experiment..., however, "I was
trying a moulinette" will NOT be an acceptable excuse if you hack your opponent more
than once in a tournament, and will result in a warning.

A further policy point:  The new corporate rules, once officially implemented, will
establish the broadest possible activities within rapier in the SCA.  The presence
within those rules of an allowance of an action DOES NOT render applicable KINGDOM
rule null and void.  By this I mean that, though the Corporate rules will allow blade
grabbing, our Kingdom rules will not.  Thus the action will be illegal here.


Grabbing, or otherwise attempting to trap the blade

gptaylor wrote:

> snippage:
>
> "Unless there has been a ruling I missed seeing published, both
>
> > moulinet-style attacks, but not strikes, and blade grabbing, but not
> > wrestling over the blade, are permitted in Ansteorra, both having similar
> > wording and intent with the proposed corporate rules.  ( Have they actually
> > signed those so I can stop saying "proposed" ?)
> >
> > David Gallowglass
>
> Isobel Responds:
> I've actually seen one Don in Ansteorra using Moulinet-style attacks with a cut
> in the end, but he's the only person...quite disconcerting.  If any field marshal
> saw anyone grab a blade at this time they would still halt the bout, and I
> imagine that not many fighters would even "get away with" the moulinet-style
> attacks either.  Although both of these actions may be "technically" legal since
> the signing of the rules, I will guess that either a re-write of the rules to
> disallow them will occur, or a huge marshallate policy meeting will have to take
> place to notify people that they are allowed.
>
> BTW...I've heard that the new corporate rules have been signed without their
> testing appendix, but that they will need to be published first before they are
> law.
>
> GP Taylor

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