[Ansteorra-rapier] gauntlets and rapier

[James Crouchet]

Yes, there is an important piece of information you missed.

The mail glove rules is a kingdom rule. The rule about damage to the
hand is an SCA rule. The kingdom rule cannot override the SCA rule.
Ergo, the grasping hand IS damaged if the blade moves or twists as I
said earlier.

So long as we are just discussing ideas and opinions I see no need to
limit the discussion. However, if you are asking for an interpretation
of the rules, I am the officer in charge of making such a ruling for
rapier in Ansteorra.

You may feel this is stupid and you may even disagree with my
interpretation. I am willing to discuss this further but you have not
yet presented anything I did not know and have not considered. If you
feel strongly about this ruling you could appeal this decision to the
Earl Marshal or the Crown but unless and until they issue a decision,
please follow this ruling on the field.

Christian Doré, Kingdom Rapier Marshal, Ansteorra

Garnet Stevens wrote:
> Greetings to the list,
>
> I need to disagree with the following statement:
>
> "In answer to Rurik's query: No matter if the mail
> covers the palm or not, the palm can still be damaged
> if it grabs a blade. The purpose of
> this rule:
>  
>      If the blade that is grasped moves or twists in
> the grasping hand, that hand is deemed disabled.
>
> is to reduce incidents of fighters just hanging on
> to the blade and perhaps wrestling over it. Also, it
> helps balance the game so the guy who's blade is
> grasped is not helpless. Those needs do not change
> just
> because the hand is covered with mail. Yes, it seems
> a bit unrealistic that a blade can still slice through
> the mail but remember that in a real fight the person
> who's blade is grasped would probably punch or
> kick the fighter grasping his blade. Since in most
> duels the fighters were similarly armed I'll leave it
> to your imagination what such a punch would do.
> Obviously that is not an option in our game."
>
> This statement is an opinion and is not written in the
> rules.  If there is a purpose as it is put, then where
> is it in the rules?
>
> The rules state:
>
> For heavy rapier and cut and thrust, mail Gauntlets
> shall be allowed as a parrying device,
> provided they are constructed in a reasonably similar
> fashion to that of historical
> examples. (i.e. chain mail and a leather glove, all
> chain mail, etc.) A fighter will not be
> allowed to cover a glove with duct tape and call it a
> mail gauntlet, or anything likened to
> such action. When wearing a mail gauntlet, the hand
> will be protected from cuts wherever
> it is covered by steel.
>
>
> and
>
>
> In heavy rapier and cut and thrust, upon agreement of
> all involved fighters, fighter may
> choose to grasp blades, rather than parry them. If the
> blade that is grasped moves or twists
> in the grasping hand, that hand is deemed disabled.
> Grasping techniques shall be used only
> to immobilize a blade, not to bend it or wrest it from
> the opponent's grip. Prolonged wrestling
> over a grasped blade is sufficient grounds for calling
> a "hold" and forcing the release of the
> blade.
>
>
> Please note that in no way does it state any of the
> above response.  Also, their is no mention to grabbing
> a blade with a chainmail gauntlet disabling said hand.
>  But, under the former it does state that the
> chainmail gloved hand "will be protected from cuts
> wherever it is covered by steel."
>
> Unless I am missing something that is actually written
> in the rules I see the following facts.
>
> A hand with a chainmail gauntlet made of steel
> covering the entire hand can ONLY be disabled by a
> thrust.  A CUT or BLADE GRABBING will not disable said
> hand.  This is also the way the rules are in my
> previous kingdom and how I have been teaching the use
> of a chainmail protected hand for many years.
>
> Feel free to elaborate.
>
> In Service,
>
> Lord Sebastiana Gerynot Fanelli  (Formerly from the
> Kingdom of Atenveldt)
>
>
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