[Ansteorra-rapier] Proposed revision to rapier rules

Pug Banter pug at pug.net
Wed Oct 10 08:40:28 PDT 2012

I am unfortunately going to be direct and blunt. 

SCA fencing is not for everyone nor should we accommodate ever straw man corner case.

The argument you are using is the same as a visitor from another kingdom. The people likely to fit in that category are statistically insignificant. If they exist they are more likely to do modern fencing if they physically can't use the blades or not fight if the cant afford the cost difference especially since they would have to provide a matched set if weapons.


Pug Bainter | pug.bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net

On Oct 10, 2012, at 10:03 AM, David Cordes <david.cordes at gmail.com> wrote:

> Keeping my comments up here, just for contrast!
> Yes, on the matter of Hanwei blades, I agree that they have been
> extremely useful in allowing people to get into using a heavy blade at
> very reasonable price.  That said, you can pick up a epee (not
> including shipping) for less than $40, which in some cases could be a
> significant cost difference.
> And regarding the blade-and-setup weight, yes, again, its certainly
> quite possible to have a nice, lightweight heavy blade and fittings.
> But the individual with arm problems has to know about them, ideally
> be able to try them to see the weight, and how it works, and then be
> able to afford them.  The last is a separate issue, and goes back to
> my first point, so I won't reiterate here.  The First two points of
> this, though, can be a problem, particularly in regions where there
> are not a lot of fencers, and where it is a significant  amount of
> travel to get to bigger events where there will be more fencers with
> different kit options.  I admit, these aren't generally a problem in
> groups with a large, well-established rapier community, but for those
> groups without one, and trying to encourage people in, offering more
> (and cheaper) options for a start isn't a bad idea!  The other aspect
> of the heavy blade that can be a problem for those with arm issues can
> be the weight-distribution.  My impression has been that even the
> physically lightweight heavy blades and generally significantly more
> tip-heavy than light blades, and with the distribution of weight away
> from the hand and arm, that needs to be controlled precisely, this can
> be a problem.
> Certainly, in the most part, I think the vast majority of fencers
> should be using heavy blade, rather than light.  However, for the
> benefit of those without the resources to look at getting even a cheap
> heavy blade, and for those with medical reason to need to use a
> lightweight blade, I would have said we ought to try and be more
> inclusive, not less.
> Asbiorn
> On 10 October 2012 09:37, Sean Hertzberg <colsith at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Answering in the body below:
>> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:30 AM, David Cordes <david.cordes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> While I think the idea is in general a good one, there are a couple of
>>> specific issues that I have with it.
>>> The first of these is cost-based.  Yes, heavy rapiers are relatively
>>> cheap and readily available today, but particularly for someone with
>>> little disposable income (people like students, at least in theory!),
>>> a light blade is potentially a more practical investment.
>> It is now possible to get a full rig with a Hanwei blade for about $100.
>> Not utterly cheap, but affordable and the Hanwei will probably last several
>> times as long as a standard epee or foil blade.
>>> The second concern is more fundamental, I think.  If or when this
>>> measure goes through, what happens to those who for medical reasons
>>> (generally problems of some sort in the arm) cannot use a heavy blade
>>> (or at least cannot use it for any useful amount of time)?  Yes, the
>>> proposed change allows for variances from it, but by the current
>>> wording, this is only for individual events.  This change would mean
>>> that those fencers could only fence at events where they notified the
>>> marshal in charge that they were going to be attending and wanting to
>>> fence with light blade more than a month in advance, and that said
>>> marshal in charge got the appropriate permission, more than a month
>>> before the event.  The other question with respect to this, is what
>>> happens at practices?  If its an official practice, would we still be
>>> able to give people who come up and express an interest the chance to
>>> try fencing with  a light blade?
>> It is possible to get a heavy rapier rig that will be just about the same
>> weight and balance as an epee.  Check out the set up that HE Simone uses or
>> HE Claire...both weigh less than my old epee.
>>> In service
>>> Asbiorn
>> In Service,
>> Avery
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