[Bards] What is a bard?

[Cisco Cividanes]

Nix, I don't want to argue with you!... all it will accomplish is me 
getting frustrated and you admonishing me like a big sister (something 
that I am not terribly happy about, mind you).
[all above said in good humor]

seriously, however...
Yes, we both have seen judges who were left scratching their heads after 
some odd-ball entry. but at the same time, a number of performing venues 
have been distinguished as separate performance arts, distinct from 
"Bardic". The two biggest ones are Drumming and middle eastern dancing. 
They have their own competitions, something that I believe was at least 
partly a product of audiences and judges not really wanting to group 
"dancing" in with "bardic". but at the same time, not wanting to exclude 
anyone.

Anyone can be a performer--I take nothing away from the raw guts it 
takes to stand up in front of an audience and perform.

But as to what we are called... frankly, I still think that the audience 
has a bigger say in that than you might be giving them credit for.

example--and I and NOT advocating this!, just making an example.

What do you think would happen if a lot of groups started holding 
competitions for the best instrumentalist? (participation concerns aside)
My theory: you would then introduce into the popular culture the idea 
that their are vocal performers and Instrumentalist, neither better, but 
each distinct. The bardic champion would be asked to perform at feast, 
and likely so would the instrumental champion. before long, the 
distinction between bard and musician would be more clarified, and 
people might be asking to hear from a "bard" and a "musician".

Before long, and without alienating anyone, you have given people who 
play instruments their own distinct category and venue, and have 
narrowed the definition of bardic to strictly the vocal arts.

so, in maybe 5 years, when people say "bard", they are probably thinking 
vocal performances only, because we didn't say "musician" as well. "They 
have their own competitions, so why should be just lump them in together 
when they are so obviously different?"

My point again is not the advocate any of this, but just to demonstrate 
how our audience and the people running our competitions can affect what 
the definition of a "bard" is.

This same scenario could be used for any breakdown, story telling, 
history, Singing....

We ARE all performers, yes. But again (and for the last time, I promice) 
I think that the audience as much as the performer shapes the definition 
of the word bard.

Ivo



Emily Minier wrote:
> Okay.  My turn.  
>
> In response to your comment - How about "bards are people who enter
> bardic competitions, or who would otherwise be accepted in bardic
> competitions. "   Ivo, you and I both know that hosts/judges of
> competitions do not "allow" only certain people to enter their
> competitions.  You and I have both witnessed some competitions where
> some of the competitors were umm...let's just say, not what the judges
> were looking for.  But they were never told they couldn't try.  I think
> what Allon is trying to say (Allon, correct me if I'm wrong) is the
> ability, desire, and talent to COMPETE have absolutely nothing to do
> with whether or not a person is a bard.  Instead, it's the ability,
> desire, and talent to entertain and educate and pass down our oral (or
> musical) traditions that make a person a "bard".  And I agree with him.
> I think that if a person MUST compete to be a bard, then being a Bard
> would be a title, like being a Centurion.  You can be a fighter without
> a tournament.  We have guys at practice who just aren't ready for a
> tournament yet.  You can be an archer without being in archery
> competition.  You can be a artisan without competing in A&S.  And you
> can be a bard without that competition, too.  Long before I began
> competing, I was a bard.  I knew this because other bards told me so.
> There is no scroll, no medallion, no material prize for being a bard.
> Don't get me wrong, there is a prize, it's just not material.  It's
> friendship.  It's camaraderie.  It's the joy in the face of the audience
> for a piece well done.  I can't say that I've only seen that joy in
> competition.  I can't.  I've seen it at fires. I've seen it at small
> camps.  I've seen it in feast halls.  There were no judges.  I am my
> only true judge.
>
> In response to your comment - But rather, I believe competitions reflect
> the attitude of our audiences .
> Again, I disagree.  Every competing bard knows that there are
> competition pieces and there are fire pieces.  There are pieces for when
> the smalls are still up and pieces that are not so family friendly.  The
> attitudes of our audiences changes not only from event to event, but
> even from fire to fire.  That's one of the greatest challenges of
> bardic, being able to read your audience and tell what they are in the
> mood for, and then delivering from the heart.
>
> So, in the interest of fair play, the question is "What is a bard?"  
>
> A bard is simply someone who blurs the line between "being at an event"
> and "being there" even just a little with the music they provide.  They
> bring emotion and fellowship with their performances.  They help us
> remember "the old times" (even the old times before we were playing).
> They keep our history alive and our youngsters (not necessarily
> chronological youngsters - time in society, youngsters) feeling as
> though they were a part of it.  They entertain.  They teach.  They
> create an ambiance that, to some, is unmatched by any other facet of our
> Society.  
>
> And, frankly, we have some of the BEST bards in the Knowne World right
> here at home.
>
> As always,
> Yours In Service,
> Lady Adalia VonderBerg
> Titled Bard of Namron
> Titled Bard of Eldern Hills.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bards-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
> [mailto:bards-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Cisco Cividanes
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 7:19 AM
> To: Ansteorran Bardic list
> Subject: Re: [Bards] What is a bard?
>
> Responses in-line below:
>
>   
>> This statement just sort of made my hairs stand on end and had my
>>     
> insides
>   
>> screamin' the word NO!! [...snip...] I personally define a bard as one
>>     
> who goes forth
>   
>> and entertains for the people and themselves.  Not for a panel of
>>     
> judges or
>   
>> an award. 
>>   
>>     
> I looked at what I wrote originally, and I do think is was a little 
> oversimplified.
>
> Lord Allon, for the purposed of this conversation, I would like to amend
>
> my original statement.
>
> How about
>  "bards are people who enter bardic competitions, or who would otherwise
>
> be accepted in bardic competitions. "
>
> My point was not to say that you have to compete to be a bard.
>
> My apologies to all for even suggesting such a thing.
>
> But rather, I believe competitions reflect the attitude of our audiences
>
> in that if the hosts/judges of a competition are willing to let you 
> enter, the chances are good that a table full of people at feast are 
> more likely to think of you as a Bard. The relationships is not cause 
> effect, but rather representative.
>   
>> SCA bardic encompasses all vocal and instrumental performances... at
>>     
> least
>   
>> in Ansteorra. That means story tellers, singers, poets and
>> instrumentalists... end of discussion!"
>>
>> This statement I would happen to mostly agree with, though there will
>>     
> always
>   
>> be individuals within the bardic community that will try to expand the
>>     
> Art
>   
>> in some new and interesting way that might not fall into these
>>     
> categories.
>   
>>   
>>     
> And indeed, any "rule" will have its exceptions. Far be it from me to 
> say otherwise. But I do personally believe that the above covers about 
> 99.9% of the people who call themselves bards in the kingdom.
>
>   
>> NO SINGLE PERSON should ever be discouraged from entering a
>>     
> competition for
>   
>> any reason.  It is more than half the battle to become a good bard
>>     
> just to
>   
>> get up in front of the audience.  If you discourage that you have
>> essentially put out the spark that could grow into a passionate fire.
>>   
>>     
> Unfortunately, this opinion is not universal. I know, and know of some 
> people who define 'the bard' more narrowly, and have openly told others 
> that they are either not bards, or that their interests are 'taking them
>
> away from true bardic'.  I have not seen such views posted here on the 
> list in a very long time, but in person I have spoken with individuals 
> who who do not believe instruments should be allowed in bardic 
> competitions, or that people who can only tell a story or only sing 
> songs should be disqualified from even entering a competition.
>
> In a more general sence, however, I have seen a lot of people posting 
> here with various opinions about what is bardic and what role it has in 
> the SCA. this post was something of a cumulative reply to the general 
> question of "what is an SCA bard?"
>
> Also, as an aside, I am always in favor of including people as much as 
> possible, but if someone were to try and enter a dance  performance into
>
> a bardic competition (I have seen such things serious discussed, and 
> even carried out on one occasion), their are some practical 
> considerations. Not the least of which is if  the judges can even 
> reasonably evaluate a dance (if someone danced for me, I doubt I could 
> even compare it to vocal performance, let alone judge it against one).
> Also, if there were another venue where dancing is being judged, I would
>
> gladly suggest the performer consider entering in that competition.
>
> All in all, the above situation probably happens once every two years...
>
> but its still something to think on for the sake of being thorough.
>
>   
>> I've experienced this one first hand. My hats are off to those with
>>     
> the
>   
>> skill to play an instrument effectively enough to convey what they
>>     
> want to
>   
>> say without the use of words.
>>   
>>     
> Its really humiliating betting the snot knocked out of you by a flute, 
> isn't it  ;)
> (above said with a smile and a laugh)
>
>
>   
>> Once again the competition does not define the the Art of bardic.  The
>> performers themselves do that.
>>   
>>     
> Hum... I'm not sure I totally agree with that.
> Perhaps a middle ground ...
> Wouldn't it be safer to say that the audience is least as influential as
>
> the bard's in shaping the definition of bardic?
>
>   
>> "Would it be nice if their were more to it?
>> Maybe
>> But realistically, I doubt it will ever get more complicated that
>>     
> that."
>   
>> It doesn't need to be more complicated than that.
>>   
>>     
> Truth be told, I tend to agree :)
>
>   
>> With much respect to you.
>>   
>>     
> And to you, good sir.
>
> Lord Ivo Blackhawk.
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