[Bg-dance] [discussion] Lazy Robin tune question

Wed Aug 24 11:39:26 PDT 2011

Gwenneth - see my next reply.  I was unclear, sorry about that.

On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Susan Scott <gwenneth40 at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's one thing to create a new dance based on period-type steps and
> period-sounding music, but another to bring in something purely or mostly
> modern.  We can't really fix past mistakes (and I do love Korobushka) but we
> can try not to add new ones.  It's like the difference between sewing a
> period-looking dress and getting something at the thrift store that looks
> sort of medievaloid if you are drunk and forgot your glassses.
>
> Gwenneth
>
> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 1:31 PM, s1ren <s1renwoman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> re: SCA Traditional
>>
>> Just playing devil's advocate here, but, wasn't Heralds In Love created
>> entirely within the SCA, the dance steps and the music both?  I'm not 100%
>> sure on the music, but that's not actually my point - what I'm getting at
>> is, wasn't every tradition new at some point?  Why not create something of
>> our own? It doesn't have to mean a change in the way we do things in
>> general, or a new standard; just an individual project type of thing.  I
>> think it might be fun.
>>
>> ~ Madylyne
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 1:24 PM, <star7fisher at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>   Lazy Robin / Robin Ddiog
>>>
>>> FYI: below is an on-going discussion from music guild and some dance
>>> members - I added the bg-dance list to ensure all interested parties are
>>> able to add their own 2 cents if they feel it worth adding.
>>>
>>>
>>> Although the dance looks fun to do, I'm thinking curmudgeonly too.  Now
>>> most of the moves are easily in alignment with period dance steps (except,
>>> possibly, backing through an arch).
>>>
>>> However, it is clear in what online information I could find that the
>>> choreography was created in the 20th Century.
>>>
>>> Arguably, we do dance Korobushka, which we now have researched to be
>>> created from Russian (some say Ukranian) immigrants after they settled in
>>> America in 1900's.  However, we dance Korobuskka, despite knowing better,
>>> because it is an SCA-Traditional dance.  This means that it was introduced
>>> and proliferated in the SCA, before we got more diligent about dance
>>> origins.
>>>
>>> To my knowledge, the Robin Ddiog, was not adapted into the SCA or
>>> well-spread throughout it if it was.  So it does not meet my standards - yes
>>> I do have some - of the types of dance I promote:
>>>
>>> 1) pre-1650 dances of European origin (really 1699 for me <grin>)
>>> 2) SCA Traditional dances
>>> 3) SCA-created dances (member choreography), preferably based on
>>> authentic pre-1650 dance styles and music.
>>> If you want to dance the dance, it might be best to pursue it with a
>>> group focused on folk dances rather than our own specific period and
>>> location preferences.  There are a number of folk dancing groups around
>>> town.
>>>
>>> @Cindy <evil grin> The Macarina does not qualify as a bransle, because it
>>> does not actually use sideways steps as is required for bransles.
>>>
>>> Star
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Zach Most <clermont1348 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: bryngwladearlymusicguild <bryngwladearlymusicguild at yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2011 10:42 am
>>> Subject: Re: [bryngwladearlymusicguild] Fwd: Lazy Robin tune question
>>>
>>>
>>>   I'm always up for learning a new song.  I've honestly been thinking
>>> that it would be fun to do Metallica covers with early instruments.
>>>   But philosophically, we have some obligation to keep things pre-1600.
>>> It gets hard for dance since that limits them to choreography from the 15th
>>> and 16th centuries.  If there's anything earlier than that I'd LOVE to see
>>> it.  But there's a ton of material from the era that we haven't explored.
>>>   I wish I'd been able to find a diplomatic way to express this last
>>> night when the song was requested.  I'm sure the song is lovely and fun to
>>> dance to, but I think we can find something more inspirational pre-1600.
>>>   Gaston (who apparently is being a bit of curmudgeon today)
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Cindy Schaufenbuel <harponyou at yahoo.com>
>>> *To:* "bryngwladearlymusicguild at yahoogroups.com" <
>>> bryngwladearlymusicguild at yahoogroups.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:34 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [bryngwladearlymusicguild] Fwd: Lazy Robin tune question
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not a dance expert, so I have no idea whether any steps in the dance
>>> itself "could not" have been done pre-1600. The tune itself could easily
>>> have been written in period, even though it wasn't. But that's true of a lot
>>> of "folk music."
>>>
>>> For that matter, I'm sure we could adapt the Macarena to something
>>> resembling period and do that, too. Call it a bransle! Gaston, I can hear it
>>> as a hurdy-gurdy solo.
>>>
>>> I'm kidding about that, of course, but I found this about the origins of
>>> the "Lazy Robin" dance:
>>>
>>> Lois Blake, a founding member of *Cymdeithas Ddawns Werin Cymru* (Welsh
>>> Folk Dance Society), devised the non-partner version of this dance to an old
>>> Welsh tune in the 1940s. Michael and Mary Ann Herman introduced Blake's
>>> version around 1952.
>>>
>>> http://www.phantomranch.net/folkdanc/dances/robinddi.htm
>>>
>>> If we want to pass a mid-20th century dance off as pre-1600, we could do
>>> anything, really.
>>>
>>> Cecilia
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>> *From:* s1ren <s1renwoman at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* David Shankle <gatsbydave at yahoo.com>; Hugh Ryan <
>>> saporling2 at yahoo.com>; Cindy Schaufenbuel <cindy.schaufenbuel at gmail.com>;
>>> bryngwladearlymusicguild at yahoogroups.com
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:08 AM
>>> *Subject:* [bryngwladearlymusicguild] Fwd: Lazy Robin tune question
>>>
>>>
>>> Morning, everyone!  I'm forwarding this email from Ld. Daniel de Lincoln,
>>> containing a couple of music files and a video for *Lazy Robin*, the
>>> dance tune that he was asking us about last night at PiP.  (Cindy, you
>>> weren't there, but I thought you might be interested).
>>>
>>> From what [little] I could find out on the web with a quick glance is
>>> that it's a "traditional" Welsh dance tune, possibly from the 1700s.
>>> Daniel's wondering if the music could be adapted to a more SCA-period style
>>> and instrumentation, and danced to by our dance guild.
>>>
>>> I like it, and I think it could definitely work (heck, if we do
>>> Darabuska, we can do this one, tee-hee).  What do you guys think?
>>>
>>> ~ Madylyne
>>>
>>> P.S. - I also found dance instruction to go with that video, if anyone's
>>> interested:
>>> http://www.pluckandsqueeze.com/Robin%20D.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 10:17 PM, <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is the tune I mentioned at PIP.  I am wondering whether it sounds
>>> at all plausible for a pre-18th century dance tune.  (Yeah, SCA period
>>> is pre-17th C, but we go long with English country ...)
>>>
>>> Easier to pass URLs around than files.
>>>
>>> http://www.panix.com/~tmcd/lazy_robin.ogg
>>> http://www.panix.com/~tmcd/lazy_robin.mp3
>>>
>>> This is a dance being performed to this tune and others.  There are 6
>>> parts to the medley, and 1, 3, and 5 are the tune in question
>>> (actually, the one above is a variant of this).
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVUe01_psdY
>>>
>>> Denyel Lincoln
>>> --
>>> Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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