CR - Medieval Interest Group at UH central

[TAVoelker@aol.com]

Hello everyone.  I am currently working with Lady Meliora on the UofH group.  
I have been following the posts in coastal regarding the group since our 
initial draft of a constitution was posted.  The discussion has been very 
beneficial and as all sides of this issue have been aired, I have found a 
number of areas that the student group can and should address.  The following 
was a post from Lady Adela earlier today (I need to add that a prior post 
from Adela contained some outstanding recommendations regarding sign-ins, 
etc. that will definitely need to be addressed.  This particular post was 
regarding tying the hoped for rebirth of the former college into the startup 
for this interest group.  Please understand that my comments are strictly 
from the vantage point of an SCA outsider (or at best someone at the doorstep 
of the SCA) and have more to do with a fairly extensive amount of experience 
getting an extremely succesful student organization off the ground at a 
different Texas State college.  I yield the floor completely to all SCA 
members on the SCA issues.


· (Lady Adela's comments)
· Please read through this, because I believe it to be a win-win situation 
for all involved.

· I'm going to make one last attempt to explain my reasons for putting the 
"potential for affiliation"   'requirements for the College to be recognized' 
in the affiliation clause of the interest group's Constitution.

· =======

· It would not affect how the interest group is formed or ran.


True after we start the group.  However, tying all of the potential issues 
involving SCA recognition into our initial constitution is going to be 
burdensome and may ultimately be unneeded.  I believe that waiting to see if 
this group can develop and maintain student interest would be wiser.  At some 
future point the student group (assuming success) can vote to petition The 
Kingdom for recognition.  I have seen several fraternities and sororities 
start up as student groups long before they petitioned a national association 
for membership.

· (Lady Adela's comments)
· a)  It would give the interest group a legitimate reason for having such a 
large number of people on campus....especially people who are not directly 
affiliated with the University.  (a la, We're here to help this group recruit 
members.)  [I do have a problem with the campus being used solely for it's 
'free' facilities.  If you're not on campus for the students, then you 
shouldn't be there at all.]  
· b) There's nothing that says how actively recruitment has to be done.

The stated intent of the group is to recreate life, arts, and fighting styles 
as they occurred in the middle ages and Renaissance period.  Bringing in SCA 
members as experts is certainly valid even without official SCA affiliation.  
As for the free facilities, UofH is a state-funded public school.  It has an 
obligation to all the local citizenry as a gathering spot for the promotion 
of knowledge.  I have seen state schools in smaller towns that allow local 
citizenry to utilize the campus under restricted circumstances to foster good 
will.  UofH routinely hopes for outside interest in the campus for sports and 
the arts, I don't think a fighter practice with other coordinated activity is 
a sin.


· (Lady Adela's comments)
· 3) If it is found out that the group is formed solely for the purpose of 
free usage of campus facilities, and not for the promotion of student-campus 
life, then you are putting the educational careers of those people who have 
signed as officers of the interest group in jeopardy.  [And no, this is not a 
threat.  But it is a concern.]

This is actually a good reason not to tie the student interest group into the 
SCA at all (or at least until the success of the group is determined). My 
intent is to recruit regularly from the school.  I have already looked into 
ad space in the Cougar and am checking into student life's requirements for 
bulletins.  For right now, the cost for this will be born by yours truly.  I 
will be at UofH for a couple of years.  We'll certainly know if the student 
group deserves to petition long before then.


· (Lady Adela's comments)
· A statement of the required number of paid SCA memberships before the 
interest group petitions for recognition by the SCA in no way means that the 
interest group will ever attain the number of member-students necessary for 
petitioning for SCA recognition (although that level does need to be 
potentially attainable).

I agree.  The problem right now is there aren't enough official SCA people to 
even start a student group (three current students are required).  Tying SCA 
membership to this student group is an instant dissolution of the student 
group.  We currently have one SCA member (Lady Meliora, who incidentally is 
the cornerstone of this whole venture), one unofficial SCA participant (we 
have only today determined who the third student will be), and one probable 
future SCA member (me).  I advise strongly in waiting until the student group 
is functional and demonstrates some staying power before the SCA should even 
show an interest in recognizing it.  Why invite another failure?


· (Lady Adela's comments)
· 5) Because the interest group is outside of the control of SCA, it can 
choose to set that petition level higher than the minimum required by SCA 
(i.e. 5 memberships and 4 officers).  [And I believe that the Kingdom can 
make exception and approve that higher number as necessary in order for the 
group to be recognized.]

I believe that before the student group should even think of petitioning it 
should demonstrate an ability to survive its first year and show a means of 
successful recruitment.  If the student group cannot handle its own 
succession, there is really no reason for the Kingdom to want to recognize 
it.  I was involved with founding a fraternity during my undergraduate years. 
 We had to demonstrate successful successive recruiting classes (plus a 
number of other requirements) before we could even colonize.  Chartering 
(roughly the equivalent of recognition) didn't happen until 5 full semesters 
of recruiting as a colony had occurred.  This insured that a culture of 
rebuilding and retooling was in place long before we achieved recognition.  
My national fraternity has used this strategy successfully for years now and 
has one of the lowest failure death rates due to low chapter membership 
because of it.  Patience on the Kingdom's part would likely produce equal 
results.


· (Lady Adela's comments)
· a)  If someone comes along who does want to restart the
· College...it is laid out plainly and clearly what is expected of the 
College (ie. how
· big it should be, that only the students are to be the officers, etc.).
· b) The interest group would have plenty of forewarning that the
· group is nearing the number required for petitioning for reactivation of 
the College.
· c) This would prevent a splinter group of only 5 members and 4 officers 
from petitioning for reactivation of the College.

This is a great idea, but really doesn't have to tie in to the student group 
at this time.  I think creating very clear expectations of not only group 
size, but succession is paramount before attempting to give this student 
group any hint of official SCA position (or potential position).
	
· (Lady Adela's comments)
· Imagine what would happen: If the Kingdom will not recognize the College 
because of it's history and low membership, then the College would blame the 
interest group (ie. the Baronies). If the College is recognized by the 
Kingdom, it's very likely that the University would no longer recognize the 
interest group.... And then the Baronies would be upset with the College.  
(But technically the group did have the right to form and it was recognized 
by the Kingdom.)

Why would the University not allow separate organizations with the same basic 
principal?  That's contradictory to the nature of many established student 
organizations.

· (Lady Adela's comments)
· Even if both groups are allowed to exist on campus, there'd still be 
problems between the 2 groups because the College would be perceived as a 
splinter faction.

That's a big if for a college that as you stated has a problem staying active.

· [(Lady Adela's comments)
· All around it would be a very bad situation.  I don't want to see this 
happen.  But with the way things stand currently, these are the scenarios 
that I believe are being set up.]

True, but it would involve a lot of unlikely events happening.  I think the 
most likely result of your worst case scenario is UofH having an active SCA 
group and a separate medieval interest group.  While really unlikely, it's 
hardly Armageddon.

· (Lady Adela's comments)
· 7) If the College ever does reactivate, practices at the University do not 
have to end.  They can continue as before ---- must be officially announced 
and have one member of the student group present at all times, plus the 
group's marshal.
· [Reserved rooms have always been and would continue to be an area of 
conflict --- the whole room reservation system on campus is just horrible.  
That's why the most recent incarnation of the College held most of it's 
meetings at a house near to campus rather than on campus.]

Agreed.

· (Lady Adela's comments)
· 8) If the College is not reactivated, then Stargate would be able to say 
that it at least made a valid attempt to reactivate the College.  At that 
time the College could be formally declared dissolved and the College's money 
be turned over to the Kingdom.  [Criteria would need to be established: time 
limit, etc.]  This in no way means that the Constitution of the interest 
group would need to change.

I again agree, but that is SCA business.  If I were to be allowed to suggest 
that the SCA should place strong standards on the reactivation of the 
college.  I can certainly see why establishing a timeline would allow for the 
potential liquidation of the currently dormant funds.  
=============

· (Lady Adela's comments)
· To summarize:

· This provides for an amicable changeover of the control of the group on 
campus should a viable (keyword!) College group ever form.

· This provides for the formal dissolution of the College if it cannot be 
formed, pending an establishment of criteria.

· By inclusion of the expectations of the College, it prevents the formation 
of a splinter group which would be damaging to the Region.

· It acknowledges the connection that the interest group has with SCA and 
provides a reason for the presence of non-University people.

· And it still achieves the goal of creating an interest group so that 
fighter practices can be held on campus.

· ========

· Again, this would in no way establish the College on campus.  But it would 
define the perimeters under which the Barony (ies) and Kingdom are willing to 
accept the existence of the College and avoid a potentially problematic 
situation.

· I think this is reasonable. & I think this is a sound course of action.

I do as well, but we are now looking at the SCA needing to set standards for 
its expectations of a student group (and really any student group, not just 
this one) wanting to reactivate this chapter.

My summary.  Meliora has made some significant progress in getting the 
student group going (and also thanks to Lady Adela for her efforts and 
interactions on our behalf with Student Life, thanks for the definative on 
arrows!).  I have every intent of helping Meliora see it through. Input from 
the SCA on a potential future activation of the SCA College chapter certainly 
seems to have struck a chord with many of you and that speaks volumes for the 
good intentions of your Baronies (and confirms my positive first impression 
of the SCA).  Let us get this student group started, please give us your 
input... But above all, have patience.  This is a long road we're looking at 
and we aren't going to achieve any significant destinations in the short run.

Yours,
Nicophorus
Mka Troy A. Voelker


P.S. The revised constitution (with absolutely no mention of SCA 
affilliation) is being filed with the University by me Friday around noon.  
With this and all required forms turned in, we merely await University 
recognition before we can start things up.  I will begin relocating to the 
UofH campus this Monday and will place my phone and grad housing here at that 
time.
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