ES - Precedence

[willow l herbert]

>>Greetings to the most noble Al-Sayyid Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra
>Moonschadeen,
>From Duchess Willow de Wisp
O great lord of gentleness I would like to make it clear that you have
never, to my knowledge, treated me in any way that has offended me. You
have always treated me with great respect. I thank you greatly for your
behavior.


>To address the original point leading to this thread of
>conversation:
>     Duchess Willow, my apologies if perhaps I inadvertently
>added to your distress in some way. I don't recall 
>failing to use an honorific in addressing you by name
>this last weekend -- but there have been times at
>other events when I have done so after initial 
>greetings have been exchanged. At times, this I believe
>to have been your desire; at others, I may have
>stepped beyond the bounds inadvertently.
>
>Again, there has come into being the rough dichotomy
>of not always knowing at what level the exchange 
>between individuals of many years acquaintance 
>should be in terms of, well, terms of formal address
>to be used.  Unless it is obvious that Willow is not
>present (but rather a certain Gypsy...), I _believe_
>that I most often open any conversation with
>"Your Grace". With respect, now and in the future,
>please correct me (gently) when I err.
>
>--
>
>Turning the discussion a third time, I will note that it is
>technically an affront to my persona to be addressed
>as "Lord" Amra -- or it would be if he were an "orthodox"
>and practicing Muslim.  However, it is my desire to make
>it easy for others to address me when they need to --
>and my persona is that of a non-European who has 
>adapted to the Western world of the very late 1500s.
>
>al-Sayyid Amr, or (nearly correct as well) al-Amra used
>as a formal mode of address (hmm, think of the latter
>as being known as "THE <name>", even if not the original),
>just does NOT get the idea across until the listener has 
>been educated to the alternative title's meaning. I use
>the Arabic form in signatures as part of the educational
>process, and gladly settle for the English when it is 
>offered (thanks again, Sir Galen), and gleefully listen to 
>such gems as the rhyme Master Robin composed for 
>Cadi Mahdi....
>
>The broader point to be observed here is that, when 
>possible, it is best to use culturally-equivalent forms
>of SCA titles whenever possible. UNLESS the person,
>speaking for their persona, chooses to use the
>European form, of course...
>
>Now if I can help encourage the Irish personae to reclaim "Bantiarn" 
>and "Bantiarna" (Irish Gaelic, cultural equivalents for "Lord" and 
>"Lady", per the SCA College of Heralds official listing)...
>
>al-Sayyid Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra
>Moonschadeen, currently residing in the Barony of the Steppes
>
>==
>Mike C. Baker
>SCA: Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra
>"Other": Kihe Blackeagle (the Dreamsinger Bard)
>My opinions are my own -- who else would want them?
>e-mail: kihe at ticnet.com OR kihe at rocketmail.com
>
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