[Elfsea] 'Young Ones'
rjt at softwareinnovation.com
Wed Oct 30 12:28:52 PST 2002
Both you and Timothy have been stalwarts of the Barony in the
time you have been playing. You (both) have had many, many good
ideas. It sounds like some of the "old ones" have only given half
the story when objecting to changing something for which they
expended a part of themselves. They have said, "We worked long
and hard to change that in '06 and shouldn't give up the work
done then." But they have neglected to give all the reasons on
both sides of the original problem.
What was done was done to solve a perceived problem. What was
the problem? What were the solutions? Why was this one chosen?
It may well be that the problem no longer exists. Or we have
other possible solutions today because of changes in SCA law
or skills available in the group or many other things.
If we talk in terms of why something was done as well as what
was done, it should make discussion less emotional. State the
problem and the solutions originally considered. It might be
obvious to those who worked through it the first time, but
it is not obvious to newer members. They did not get to put
in an opinion then and may have good input that was not
available the first time around.
Lets just make sure it is not an "us against them" thing.
That makes Elfsea lose.
Caelin on Andrede
> Okay, I'll pipe up as the "Baby" of the Group. I've been playing
> in Elfsea a few months less than Maria. There are people that
> have been playing less time and there are people that having been
> playing way more.
> I'm going to explain a little something about buttons. I've got
> just about every e-mail going back two or more years of
> conversation on this list. It seems there are times when
> everyone is discussing issues in the Barony and people start
> throwing out ideas. Usually someone happens to throw out an idea
> would result in something being changed that was fought for in
> the wayback when. That type of idea is consistantly shot down.
> I'd expect it to be. People were passionate enough to do
> something about it back then. It's perfectly natural for them to
> be passionate about it not being undone now.
> Back to the buttons. The reply is consistantly something VERY
> close to you "If you'd been here back when we fought for it to be
> this way you wouldn't be talking about changing it". That type
> of statement is very charged without it being intended. It can
> be read many ways but when you hear it over and over again in
> e-mails and in person it simply becomes an insult. The first
> time you say it, it means one thing but it may have been the
> hundredth time we active 'young ones' have heard it. By then it
> means, "Shaddup, you have no idea of the history in this barony
> our you wouldn't make such stupid suggestions."
> A good idea is a good idea, even if it comes from a newcomer. A
> bad idea is a bad idea even if it comes from an old-timer. If
> the only thing you can say to shoot down an idea relates to time
> served. That doesn't make it a bad idea. Our Defender Titles
> are all part of one event for a reason. It's not just because
> someone fought to have them together. Don't tell me it's a bad
> idea because it goes against the goal of a fight I wasn't part
> of. That particular idea, of moving some Defender titles to
> other events, is a bad idea for many reasons. We don't need to
> resort to what we now know is a hotspot for people, referring to
> time served.
> I'm new. I'm active. I have many of the historians files in my
> garage still. I wasn't there but I've gone out of my way to
> learn the history of the Barony. Still, if we 'young ones' don't
> know the history of the Barony who's fault is that? I don't want
> to know who's fault it is. I'll take those historian's files I
> do still have and find some way of starting to diseminate the
> information and history I have available to the people of the
> barony. I hope it doesn't go against any fight that was fought
> back when. I hope people might read about thier history even if
> it's filtered through the eyes of a 'Young One'.
> Just to sum up the point, We 'Young Ones' have been having ideas
> slapped down with the same catch phrases for at least the last
> two and half years I've been here. Any friendly intent and
> niceness that I AM still sure is there is getting extremely hard
> to see/feel.
> Yours In Service,
> Ld. Wilim Penbras ap Gurgeneu
> aka Billy Fathead
> Elfsea mailing list
> Elfsea at ansteorra.org
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