ANSTHRLD - name books

Kathleen O'Brien kobrien at bmc.com
Fri Apr 24 16:40:23 PDT 1998


At 04:27 PM 4/24/98 -0500, jruble at urocor.com wrote:

>Edric Lorry said:

>> heraldry, but what I lack are books on names (ie. Dauzat,Reamey &

>> Wilson),I

>> do have a copy of the Wythicomb and am curious if anyone knows a way I
may

>> be able to obtain a copy of the others,so that  I can start a
"heralds

>> point"at my local events to help others since our heralds ideal of
helping

>> is to say "blazoing is not part of my job, get your device blazoned
and

>> your name documented and i'll submit it for you". That is not what I
think

>> a heralds "job" should be and would like to give others the help I
had

>> recieved.  

>>  

>A noble pursuit, and one to be applauded.  But I suggest you put some
of

>your energy into "helping" your local herald rather than setting up
against

>him or her.  Maybe apply to be their deputy.  This could be a learning

>experience for both of you, and it sounds like your herald has some
things

>to learn.


I worked at that consulting table at Lilies and so know many of the
people that you got to meet.  (All wonderful folks.)  Several of them
were or are kingdom level heralds in Calontir.  Others have held
positions as heralds for their groups.  That is how many of them
developed the book collections that you got to work with: when they held
heraldic offices, they began collecting these books specifically so that
they could do consulting.  


Also, the reason that area was called "Herald's Point" at Lillies was
that was from there that all the heraldic activites and services were
coordinated, including crying the camp with announcements, etc.     


I think there are two points to be made here.  First is that any good
resources available for general use are very welcome!  Having said that,
I also agree with Ulf.  In addition to submitting forms, a good local
herald really should be willing and able to aid submitters in their
research.  


I have a decent selection of name resource books.  I began collecting
these when I was helping a local herald at consulting days.  I became
interested in name research and have kept adding to my books over the
years.  Wherever I am active, I have made these books available to the
heralds I have come in contact with.  Currently we use them at commenting
sessions here in Bryn Gwlad, also for some of the work in the Asterisk
office.  


Edric, I think yours is a noble endeavor and you should pursue it. 
However, I also think Ulf is correct.  If the attitude that you describe
really exists in your local herald, then everyone would benefit from a
deputy who is very interested in helping submitters.  :)


Here is a list of some of the books I use, listed with "most used" at the
top.  Most of these I have ordered through Borders Books.  If I remember
the price, I've noted it next to the book.  Ones I know are out of print,
I've marked as "OP".


1) Withycombe, E. G., <underline>The Oxford Dictionary of English
Christian Names</underline>, 

	3rd edition (Oxford, England: Oxford University Press, 1977). 

	(~$11 paperback, OP)

2) Reaney, P. H. and R. M. Wilson, <underline>A Dictionary of English
Surnames</underline>, 

	3rd ed. (Oxford, England: Oxford University Press, 1995). 

	(~$20 paperback, in-print)

3) O'Corrain, Donnchadh and Fidelma Maguire, <underline>Irish
Names</underline>, 2nd edition 

	(Dublin, Ireland: Lilliput Press, 1990).

	(~$11 paperback, in-print in 1994.)

4) Black, George F., <underline>The Surnames of Scotland</underline> (New
York, NY: The New 

	York Public Library, 1946).

	(~$50 hardback, in-print in 1994.)


These four are the books I use most often and may be where you want to
get started.  If you can find them at a used book store, so much the
better!  Also, I've noticed that names run in trends in regions.  Some
areas tend to go for Scottish names, others for German, etc.  I recommend
only ordering new books as you need them.  Cuts down the cost that way! 
A list of good name books are in the "no photocopy" list at the College
of Arms site: http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/admin.html#APPENDIX_H


FYI: Dauzat, Ekwall, Morgan & Morgan, Johnston, and Room are currently
out of print.  Also, Bahlow's <underline>Deutsches
Nameslexikon</underline> is currently available in an English
translation.  Here's the citation: 


Bahlow, Hans, <underline>Dictionary of German Names</underline>,
translated by Edda Gentry 

	(Madison, Wisconsin: University of Wisconsin-Madison, 1993).


However, before you start collecting, be sure to print out the sources to
avoid list at the College of Arms site:
http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/admin.html#APPENDIX_F


Good luck to you,


Mari



Lady Mari Elspeth nic Bryan, Deputy Asterisk Herald

Barony of Bryn Gwlad, Kingdom of Ansteorra

kobrien at bmc.com



P.S.  I will be at the consulation table at Steppes Warlord if anyone
wants to come flip through the book collection. 
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