ANSTHRLD - Re: Conflict check... tmcd at
Tue Nov 16 22:14:59 PST 1999

On Tue, 16 Nov 1999, Darin Herndon wrote:
> I also have to agree with the Panama conflict Magnus found.

Except the Armorial is wrong with

Panama|9509L|b|Quarterly 1 and 4 argent, 2 gules, and 3
azure.|(Important non-SCA flag)|FO|QLY:argent:pl:~and multicolor

It should have appended ", in bend a mullet azure and a mullet gules".
The other conflict still holds, however.

>  The reason I ask about the " and argent" version and the
> ordinary is (and please educate me where necessary, I really do like
> learning): when comparing a device consisting only of an ordinary
> upon a field and it is being compared a device with only the same
> field then should not the two be clear by X.1 addition of a primary
> charge with the ordinary acting as the primary charge?  Or cannot
> peripheral ordinaries be primary charges?  (Assuming a bordure for
> an example) Then would not "Quarterly azure and argent" be clear of
> "Quarterly azure and argent, a bordure [some tincture]" by
> addition/removal of a primary charge?

No.  The rule is X.4.a.ii.

    ii.  Field-Primary Armory - If neither of two pieces of armory
    being compared has charges, or if each has the same uncharged
    peripheral ordinary, they may derive greater difference from
    changes to the field.  Such armory will be called _field-primary

    For the purposes of this rule the peripheral ordinaries are the
    chief, the bordure, the base (including the point pointed), the
    quarter, the canton, the gyron, the orle, the double tressure, and

and then it goes on to Substantial Change of Partition, Complete
Change of Tincture, and Other Field-Primary Armory.

So it depends on the ordinary.  If it's not peripheral -- e.g., a
chevron -- it's primary and X.1 applies.  If it's in the enumerated
list of peripherals and there are no other charges, X.4.a.ii may help.
If it's peripheral but not on the list, or it's charged, then as I
wrote in my article on primary charges, "There is *no* primary charge
group, if there be no charges at all or only peripheral ordinaries.".

Danielis de Lindo
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