ANSTHRLD - Name Submission Question

[Kathleen O'Brien]

At 05:52 PM 10/26/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>Riane asks about submission of a name and of a backup name.  First, I
>agree that we ought to see the names in question.  

[snip]

Agreed.  Where we go from here really depends on the name the submitter
wants.  

Regarding "In General...", here are my recommendations:

	I usually recommend specifying preferred alternatives when we are unable
to find documentation for use of the spelling that the submitter desires in
period.  Here are some examples of that situation from recent LoIs and
ILoIs.  (It is especially important on Rosamunde's name since there are
several very close spellings.  This way she gets to pick her second choice
spelling.)  I've edited these entries down to only the relevant sections.
I've also changed italics to angle brackets, < >, to make non-MIME mailers
happier.  Note in each case that the submitted spelling is the one the
submitter wants.  In the text of the documentation or in the notes section,
the entry specifies that if <the desired spelling> is not registerable,
then the submitter prefers <a documented spelling>.

LoI 07/99:
18)  	Rosamunde del Shore
	Name.
	New name. [...] Submitter prefers the spelling <Rosamunde> but says that
if the spelling Rosamunde is not registerable, then she prefers the
attested <Rosamund>.
	<Rosamunde>:  English feminine given name.  Bardsley (p. 654 s.n. Roseman)
dates the spellings <Rosamunda> to 1273, <Rosamund> to 1563 & <Rosamond> to
1563. 

ILoI 08/99:
23) Maureen Faulkner (Westgate)
	New name.
[...]
<Maureen>: Submitter prefers this spelling but will accept <Muirenn> dated
to 831 by Ó Corráin & Maguire p 141.


ILoI 09/99
15) Fearghus MacKenna (Elfsea)
	New name.  New device.  
[..]
<Fearghus>: Submitter wants this spelling but will accept <Fergus> which is
dated to 1582 in Black p 259 under Fergus.

>If he's willing to pay for two name submissions, he can certainly do
>two names, and indicate on both which one should win in case both make
>it.  Paying twice seems unpleasant to me, and I'm not the one who'd
>have to pay.

Unless the submitter specifically wants 2 different names (one as a primary
name and one as an alternate) I would not recommend this route.  The
bookkeeping would get messy (to say the least).

>Laurel gives a little leeway in some cases -- "If the spelling
>'Foobar' is not registerable, I'd prefer the attested period name
>'Foobaz'" is about as far as I'd push it, 

Which is what we have been doing in the above submissions.

>and I'd make a special note to Bordure to put that on the LoI, 

Actually, Asterisk has been putting these notes in the ILoI so that the
documentation for the backup choice can be checked.  It also keeps a tired
Bordure from forgetting to add it to the LoI if it's already in the ILoI
(which I use as my template to write the LoI).  :)

>and I'd make darned sure the backup was rock-solid, and I'd make the 
>backup be close to the submission (e.g., alternate spellings), 

as we've done above...

>and I might e-mail Laurel about it first to be sure.

Nah.  On close ones, it's become not-unusual to state on the LoI that the
submitter prefers the spelling <Foobar> but will accept the documented
<Foobaz> if the two spellings are fairly similar..  It gives the CoA the
opportunity to check all those weird sources that some of us have
squirreled away and see if we can pull a rabbit out of the hat for the
submitter.  Every now and then we get really lucky and manage it.  An
example is a recent submission from the East.  The name was listed on their
LoI as <Connor MacGillivray> with the note that the submitter had wanted
<MacGlandish> but no documentation could be found for it. 

>From the 08/99 LoAR (the angle brackets are my replacement for italics):

Acceptances - East

Connor MacGlandris. Name. 
	Submitted as <Connor MacGillivray>, the submitter originally requested
<MacGlandish> but did not document the name.  Bordure Herald, however, was
able to justify a closer name. Black, p. 498 under MACGILLANDERS, dates the
spellings <Makgillandris> (1511), <Mcgillandreist> (1549), and <McClanders>
(1605).  Thus <MacGlandris> is a plausible 16th century form that is
significantly closer to what Connor originally desired.  

>Kingdom, on the other hand, is likely to be much more forgiving, if
>for no other reason that we can all gather around Kathri and make
>puppy-disappointment faces at her.  I'd suggest working with Kathri
>*after* consulting with this list about the specific names.

So, now that I've rambled on and on...

What's the name(s) your submitter is interested in?

Mari

=================================================
Lady Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
Bordure Herald, Kingdom of Ansteorra
mka Kathleen M. O'Brien
kobrien at bmc.com

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