ANSTHRLD - Name help please Fitzmorgan at
Fri Sep 8 00:11:27 PDT 2000

    Greetings from Robert  Fitzmorgan

    I need some help from the CoH with Northkeep's Baronial Service Order.  
Some background first.  When Northkeep became a barony the suggestion was 
made that we name our Baronial Service Order after a member of our shire who 
had passed away shortly before we became a barony, Lady Kendra Kenmare.  The 
Barony approved of the idea.  We didn't realize that we were going to have 
problems with registering this, and by the time this became apparent many in 
our Barony had become very attached to the idea.  Our first attempt to 
register a name was, "The Order of the Kenmare.  This was returned in kingdom 
and we were told we would need to provide evidence that period orders were 
named after geographical features such as rivers.  We can document that the 
name 'Kemare' was used in period for the Kenmare River, and for the region 
around the river.  The town of Kenmare was founded just out of period in 1670 
and named after the river or the region.  So the name 'Kenmare' IS period, 
but was not applied to a town in period.  

    I have a photocopy of a list of period orders from the book "Orders of 
Knighthood, awards and the Holy See."  by Cardinale, Hyginus Eugene.  I'd 
like to ask the help of the CoH in finding a way to name our Service order 
that is registrable and contains the name "Kenmare".  This has been a sore 
point here for almost 4 years and Before I approach their Excellencies 
Northkeep with yet another proposal I would like to have a reasonable 
expectation that it will fly.  Once I have a few ideas that are registrable 
then I will approach their Excellencies and the Barony to choose which one we 
want.  I have discussed this with ld. Etienne who has worked on this for some 
time and here are some of our thoughts on the matter.

A common pattern in naming Orders in the SCA seems to be:  The Order of the 
[THING] of [PLACE]   'place' generally being the name of the branch.

Some period patterns I've seen include:

    The Order of [THING]
    The Order of [PERSON]       With "person" almost always being a Saint
    The Order of [PLACE]        With "place"  pretty much always being a town 
or city
    The Order of [PERSON] OF [PLACE]
    The Order of [TRAIT]            i.e. Mercy, Silence, Ransom, jubilation 
    The Order of Our Lady of [THING], [PLACE], [TRAIT]

    Can we simply name it after the person, i.e.,  "The Order of Kendra 
Kenmare"?  The name was registered Sept. 92 and we can get a letter from her 
husband releasing the name to the Barony for this use.  Naming orders after 
people is a period practice, would the person have to be a Saint for this to 
be permisable?  

    Can we name the order  "The [THING] of Kenmare" with Kenmare being the 
region, or perhaps the town and convince the CoH to cut us a little slack 
over the date, since the name "Kenmare" is period?  

    Could we register something usng 'Kenmare' as an adjective such as: "The 
Order of the Kenmare Lilly"?

    Can we name our order "The Order of Our Lady of Kenmare"?  It's a very 
period pattern, and my personal favorite.  

    What about "The Order of the Company of Kenmare" or "The Order of the 
Kenmare Company" ?

    Any help or suggestions will be very much appreciated.  I would like to 
get this issue resolved.  

Thank  You

Robert Fitzmorgan
Barony of Northkeep
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