ANSTHRLD - Re: heraldry
kobrien at bmc.com
Tue Apr 24 16:35:21 PDT 2001
>>My son is wanting to search his name and device. On his device all he
>>wants is blue background (sea blue, not dark but not powder blue),
>It would have to be a standard blue. Light blue (Blue Celeste) is not a
>registerable tincture in the SCA
>>With a light to medium brown merchant/viking ship with white sail in
>Brown is also not a tincture that is allowed except in the case of 'proper'
>which is discouraged, but not disallowed. I would suggest gold/yellow (Or)
>as a close approximation
>I have not conflict checked this. The blazon would be "Azure, a viking long
>boat Or, sailed argent"
Brown is considered "proper" for the hull of a ship. See the discussion on
James Parker's device at:
The resubmission passed. It was registered in 09/99:
James Parker. Device. Counter-ermine, a bend sinister between a caravel and
a sea lion Or.
So, for this device, I'd say:
Azure, a viking ship sailed argent.
(Would we give the technical term for a viking ship instead of "viking
ship"? Also, the "sailed argent" bit is based on commentary in the first
ICC listed above.)
Now the armory wizards can correct me on this. :)
>>The name he wants is Padraig Burke. Irish and english persona born
>I am not very good at names, so have sent this to the Ansteorran heralds
>list for further help.
The spelling listed should be registerable (assuming no one's grabbed it yet).
However, the form <Padraig Burke> is a mix of Gaelic and English spellings
which was not actually done in period (though we register it all the time).
In Gaelic, the name would have been something like <Pa/draig Burc>. (The
slash represents an accent over the preceeding letter "a".) In English,
the same name would have been rendered something like <Patrick Burke>.
Both names would have referred to the same person; one would be used if a
document was written in Gaelic, the other if a document was written in
English - that's all.
I'll need to do some research to be certain of the spellings appropriate
for the 1500s.
There is one other point (I'm mentioning it here because some folks will
say "But I thought...").
Names of saints were generally considered too holy to be used by common
folk in Gaelic culture in period. They used forms like <Giolla Pha/traig>
"servant [of Saint] Patrick" or <Maol Pha/traig> "devotee [of Saint]
Patrick" instead. (Though <Pa/draig> is registerable on its own as a given
However, in families of Anglo-Norman descent in Ireland (exactly what you
mention here), this trend was not as rigid. (These families intermarried
with families of Gaelic descent, but they seem to have maintained some
differences in naming patterns from families of strictly Gaelic descent.)
And by the end of the 1500s, I can easily see someone with the given name
of <Patrick> born to one of these families.
>>You can send info to me or my son. My son's mundane name is Butch Gibson,
>>email is snarfster at home.com.
I'll pull some documentation for this name and post it.
Yours in service,
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