ANSTHRLD - Fwd: ANST - Heraldry Help

Tim McDaniel tmcd at
Fri Feb 2 21:36:29 PST 2001

On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Lari and Robert Kirby <lariandrobert at>
> Any suggestions for this gentle?
> From: YTHmin at
> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:49:04 EST
> Subject: ANST - Heraldry Help
> To: <ansteorra at>
> I was at an event and spotted my registered device on someone elses
> belongings and banners. No doubt it was my device exactly. I did not
> approach the person or say anything to anyone about it. I did
> conceal my own display of the device so as to avoid any immediate
> confrontation. How should this type of thing be handled, any
> suggestions ?

Suzanne, what replies has the gentle received on the Ansteorran list?
You may want to forward this.

I agree with Malcolm that the first thing to do is to check with
heralds to find out everything you have registered.  YTHmin, if you'll
please e-mail me at tmcd at with your registered SCA name, I'll
be glad to look up everything you have registered.

Another thing is to have an experienced herald look at the other
person's display and see if it is indeed identical or too close to
yours.  I can also locate local experienced heralds [footnote 1], but
you'd have to know what events the other person is likely to attend,
and/or find out their name and what group they're with.

While I encourage heraldic display, so I would generally urge you to
make badges for retainers, and banners, and all that, I would not
suggest the ostentatious display Malcolm suggest.  I instead encourage
you to first read "Channels for Complaint and Appeal", then re-read
it, then think about it.  In fact, anyone with any problem or dispute
in the SCA (or even out of it) ought to read it.  It is at

and is included in any order of a paper copy of Corpora.

The first suggestion after the principles is "Try to work things out
face to face".  (Or perhaps a telephone call, which has a certain
distance, but it can be impersonal.)

They also suggest, "If you can't communicate, ask someone you and the
other party both respect to help, either by relaying messages or by
moderating a meeting between you. Try not to go to an officer in
charge of the area in question, as such an officer may be tempted or
compelled to make a ruling instead of letting you reach an informal
agreement.".  This should be considered because SCA heraldry has some
rules, some quite expert.  (It's not like "your loud drums at 2 AM are
keeping me from sleep", which is not a technical question.)  So you
may want an impartial and experienced herald along to explain and
consider details.  To be impartial, they should not be a landed
herald, especially not one with authority over either of you.

If that fail, then ... hrm.  The theoretical possibility has been
mentioned from time to time, but I don't know that there's ever been a
formal case in Ansteorra.  I would suggest some "Peer pressure" at
that point: gentle suasion.

But I can hardly over-emphasize that you should not borrow trouble --
don't bother even *thinking* about that until after previous steps.

If all else fail, or if you and they are amenable to schtick, the
*period* thing to do, I believe, would be to have the kingdom
Principal Herald hold a trial (we'd have to research it).  The period
technical term is "Court of Chivalry", but we'd have to avoid that at
all costs.  Aside from the fact that as best I recall it's a technical
term used in (misappropriated into) kingdom law, that phrase would
send half the ancients of the kingdom into screaming convulsions.
(Even my closest friends from that era refuse to discuss the Court of
*Inquiry* against Jonathan and Willow, circa 1980.  I've never heard
of any other SCA turmoil with a half-life of over 20 years.  That's
like 7 SCA generations.)

Master Daniel de Lincoln, [1] Companion of the Order of the Pelican
and former Bordure Herald of Ansteorra and former member of the staff
of Laurel King of Arms
Tim McDaniel (home); Reply-To: tmcd at; 
if that fail, my work address is tmcd at
 "To join the Clueless Club, send a followup to this message quoting every-
 thing up to and including this sig!" -- Jukka.Korpela at (Jukka Korpela)

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