ANSTHRLD - Conflict Check - shark naiant

Timothy A. McDaniel tmcd at
Wed Feb 7 11:56:28 PST 2001

(It is a little helpful to describe the armory in the subject line, so
as to distinguish one conflict check request from any others.  I've
changed the subject line.)

(I'll answer the household name question in another note: it doesn't
relate to this.)

> Gyronny of six vert and azure, a shark naiant argent.

First, there's an instaboing for contrast.  Rules for Submission (RfS)
VIII.2.a describes the term "good contrast" for purposes of the RfS --
it boils down to "no metal-on-metal and no color-on-color", but
neutral fields are possible.   RfS VIII.2.b says when good contrast is
required, including the following:

    iii.  Elements evenly divided into two parts, per saltire, or
    quarterly may use any two tinctures or furs.

    For example, a field quarterly could be composed of azure and
    gules, argent and Or, Or and ermine, or vert and vairy gules and

    iv.  Elements evenly divided into multiple parts of two different
    tinctures must have good contrast between their parts.  [It is
    implicit that this rule does not apply if either of iii or v

    For example, "checky argent and gules" is acceptable, but "checky
    azure and gules" is not.

    v.  Elements evenly divided in three tinctures must have good
    contrast between two of their parts.

Since "Gyronny of six" is not two parts, per saltire, quarterly, or
three parts, it requires good contrast.  Since vert and azure are both
colors, they do not ahve good contrast: boing.

I will make a few notes in case there is a similar redesign.

    As Master Bruce as Laurel said in his 3/93 cover letter "Parker,
    p.301, states that gyronny of six should be symmetric around the
    horizontal axis, not the vertical axis; and this is borne out by
    such period examples as I've been able to uncover. " (Jaelle of
    Armida, LoAR September 1996, p. 17)

As for fish, I note the following precedents:

    Based on Master Bruce's research, which indicated that the amount
    of embowing appeared to be an artistic variant in period, we are
    granting no difference between a haurient and haruient
    embowed. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR September 1996, p. 17)

    It was the consensus of the commentors and those attending the
    roadshow meeting that there was no CD between a shark and the
    marlin here. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR June 1996, p. 2)

    We have not generally granted a difference between types of
    natural fish. (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR August 1995, p. 18)

    There is ... nothing [i.e., no CD] for the [change in] type
    between a generic fish and a swordfish. (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR May
    1996, p. 29)

    We grant a CD between a dolphin and a generic fish.  (Deirdre of
    Shadowdale, September, 1992, pg. 18) [Note that this is a heraldic
    dolphin, the heraldic monster, q.v.]

    [Two orcas sable marked argent vs. two bottlenosed dolphins sable]
    There is ...nothing for type; and the markings are artistic
    details, worth no difference.  (Tymoteusz Konikokrad, September,
    1992, pg. 47)

    There's a CD between dolphins and most kinds of fish.  (Alethea of
    Fair Isle, October, 1992, pg. 16)

    "There is no difference for the change from a pike to a sturgeon."
    (LoAR 12/91 p.19).

    "There is a CVD for the difference in type between an heraldic
    dolphin and a generic fish." (LoAR 8/90 p.1).

    [Marlin vs. default fish or vs. salmon] "We could not see giving
    another [CVD] for type of fish." (LoAR 8/90 p.14).

    "While we do not consider one type of generic fish to be different
    from another for purposes of difference, the existence of an
    heraldic dolphin as a separate and distinct charge is
    well-documented.  Hence [there is a CVD] for type of [fish]."
    (LoAR 11/90 p.7).

So this boils down to "[Field], a fish naiant argent".  Consider

    Anton de Winton|8505M|d|Per chevron azure, and Or scaly sable, in
    chief a herring naiant embowed argent.

Forced move to chief, so no CD for "in chief".  No CD for type of
fish.  No CD for embowing.  1 CD for field.

There may be other conflicts; I only got 11% of the way thru the

Daniel de Lincolia
Tim McDaniel is tmcd at; if that fail,
    tmcd at is my work account.
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