[Heralds] Conflict checking 'overall' charge

Timothy A. McDaniel tmcd at jump.net
Fri May 11 15:35:46 PDT 2001

Emma de Fetherstan / "Jennifer Smith" <jds at randomgang.com> wrote:
> Conflict checking
>     Argent, two chevronels gules and overall an eagle displayed sable.

Oooh.  Ahhhh.  It'd be far closer to period style if the ordinaries
were overall, but then you'd hit Manfred, and this is simple enough
and with at most one period oddity to be good period style.

> Does this conflict with "Manfred, King of Sicily" with
>     Argent, an eagle displayed sable
> ? I count 1 CD for the addition of the chevronels ...  Since it's an
> overall charge, do the chevronels count as half of the primary
> charge group (and therefore get a CD per X.4.e)?  Or as secondaries
> (X.4.b)?  Either way that's only one CD

No.  Your mental model is off (and at least this situation is simple
enough to not provoke headaches).

You need Heraldic Group Theory.  You have to group charges into
groups.  These are all the types of charge group I can think of for
CD-counting purposes:
- primary
- secondary
- tertiary (charge entirely on charge)
- "quaternary" (charge entirely on charge entirely on charge: insta-boing)
- overall
- maintained (ignored for conflict purposes (except for conflict with
  your own real-world arms))

Note that these are mutually exclusive.  A charge falls into one and
only one category.  Overall charges can never be primary.  Overall
charges can never be secondary.

So we have
#1: primary: two chevronels
    overall: eagle
#2: primary: identical eagle

RfS X.1: Addition of Primary Charges - Armory does not conflict with
     any protected armory that adds or removes the primary charge

     Most cadency systems did not involve addition or deletion of the
     primary charge group, so this automatically creates an
     independent design.  For example, "Argent, two mullets gules"
     does not conflict with "Argent, a pale between two mullets
     gules", and "Vert, a lion rampant Or and a chief indented argent"
     does not conflict with "Vert, a chief indented argent".

Notice: "does not conflict".  You're done without having to consider

A pity that X.2 as currently written doesn't apply to the case.

If you want to count CDs,
1 CD for change of number of charge group (1 <-> 2)
for change of type (eagle <-> chevronel)
for change of tincture (sable <-> gules)
for addition of overall charge group

Daniel de Lincolia
Tim McDaniel is tmcd at jump.net; if that fail,
    tmcd at us.ibm.com is my work account.
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