[ANSTHRLD] March 2004 ILOI
magnus77840 at hotmail.com
Wed Apr 14 07:13:30 PDT 2004
Magnus von Lübeck sends commentary on the March 2004 ILOI.
There are some interesting issues raised by some submissions that list
might help answer.
1) Amelot Lisette. (Bryn Gwlad)
[Name] http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/latefrenchfem/ Late Period
Feminine Names from the South of France by Talan Gwynek gives Lisette from
[Device] Return for three conflicts:
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn July 2001 (via the West): "Vert, a chevron
between three falcons argent."
Caitlyn Emrys August 1995 (via An Tir): "Vert, a chevron between three
peacocks pavonated to base argent."
Harrys Rob of Wamphray February 1996 (via An Tir): "Vert, a chevron between
three winged spurs argent."
4) Cellach Ferguson. (Namron)
[Device] Name registered November 2003 LoAR. Blazon as: "Per pale azure and
argent, a Celtic cross counterchanged."
This should be clear of Katriona Silverswan December 1990 (via the East):
"Per pale azure and argent, an ankh counterchanged." "[a cross moline vs an
ankh] There is X.2. (Sufficient Difference) difference between these two
crosses; the ends of the three lower arms have been changed significantly,
and the looped chiefmost arm create an outline so different from a cross
moline that it was felt that if X.2. difference can apply to crosses at all
(and we believe it does), it should apply to these two." [Ursula of
Kyleahin, 6/96 p. 8]
This should also clear Angelica Peregrine the Red June 1991 (via
Atenveldt):"Per pale azure and argent, two links of chain fretted in cross
counterchanged." X.2 should apply for links of chain in cross and a Celtic
6) Kolskeggr Thorolfsson. (Bjornsborg)
[Device] This is a return for the field divisions of gules and sable do not
have good contrast. Field divisions of 6 parts or more require good
contrast. "Rfs.VIII.2.b. iii. Elements evenly divided into two parts, per
saltire, or quarterly may use any two tinctures or furs. For example, a
field quarterly could be composed of azure and gules, argent and Or, Or and
ermine, or vert and vairy gules and argent. iv. Elements evenly divided
into multiple parts of two different tinctures must have good contrast
between their parts. For example, checky argent and gules is acceptable,
but checky azure and gules is not."
8) Martyn Lukasik. (Emerald Keep)
[Device] We can drop the rampant from the blazon as default. This unicorn
is missing its horn.
9) Petruccio Alfonso Maria Cuccieri de Cataluna. (Steppes)
[Device] The name is registered as Petruccio Alfonso Maria Cuccieri de
Blazon as "Gules, estencelé, an oak tree eradicated argent."
10) Pierce O Connor. (Steppes)
[Name] Jon Rolfsson - This should be listed under the new name for a name
change. What does he want done with his current name?
The St. Gabriel site is linked to Runic inscriptions from Bryggen in Bergen,
by Anne Haavaldsen and Espen S. Ore
which gives Rolfr ro+lfr B599
12) Seraphina Maslowska. (Bjornsborg)
[Name] Withycombe page 266 under Seraphina gives it as an early female
Paul Goldschmidt's Dictionary of Period Russian Names
Serafima (f) -- Serafima, martyr. 2nd Century.
This tells us that it is a saint's name and was known in Russia which is
near Poland. An Eastern Orthodox saint should have been known in both
countries. So Seraphina is registerable as a saint's name. The problem is
how do you spell it in Polish.
Polish Given Names in Nazwiska Polalow
The best site we have on Polish gives Serafin [Seraphine] as a man's name
with the Latin form. This book covers the 13th through 18th centuries.
http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?773+0 has a summary
of evidence for Seraphina as a 2nd century Russian saint and 13th century
"We're not sure where the name <Seraphina> arose. It might derive from a
2nd century martyr . The masculine name <Seraphin> is recorded in 9th
century France , and a feminine version of this, <Seraphine>, would be
plausible in early medieval France. The name was more popular in medieval
Italy: There was a Saint Seraphina (usually referred to as Santa Fina) who
lived in Italy during the 13th century , and there was a 15th century
<Blessed Seraphina Sforza> and a 16th century <Saint Seraphin of
Montegranaro> . Note that these are modern spellings. The period
spellings are probably closer to those illustrated by the masculine examples
<Seraffo> and <Serafino>, from Florence in 1427 . In Eastern Europe,
the feminine name is recorded in Russia as <Serafima> late in our period
, and the masculine form was used in Poland :
Seraphin 1228, 1410, 1478, etc. Zeraphin 1438 Szeraphim
These forms could be feminized by adding <-a>. The Eastern European
examples suggests a connection with Byzantine Greece, but we found no
evidence that the name was used there [8, 9]."
>From all this one can form the hypothesis that Seraphina is registerable as
a Polish female saint's name.
I can find no solid documentation for Maslowska as period.
Useful Polish books can be found at www.s-gabriel.org/docs/polish.html
I would recommend the client consult with St. Gabriel on the last name or
post to SCA heralds. This exceeds the research capacity we have in this
Now to pound the useless sites:
Polish Naming Customs rootsweb.com/~polwgw/naming.html
Rootsweb is a genealogy site and one of the best ones. However their focus
is on modern American genealogy, not medieval genealogy and naming. This
site is useless for period naming practices and also not needed. The SCA
already allows registration of a saint's name as found in that culture's
Kate Monk's Onomastikon: Polish Names of Biblical Origin
See St. Gabriel list www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/badpages.shtml. It is a
fantasy role playing game site. This makes the CoA think you are trying to
register a fantasy gaming character and send your submission to the return
for further work stack. The site is useless as documentation and gets
pounded like a tent peg.
Saint of the Year for July on Catholic Stuff
This only tells us what we already know - that Seraphina was a saint. The
site gives no sources for its lists though they are probably from Catholic
church publications. The site doesn't look like it is sponsored by an
official Catholic organization or has historical research as its goal.
Behind the Name www.behindthename.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?terms=seraphina
See St. Gabriel list http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/badpages.shtml
It has no historical sources and includes modern and Elvish names. This is
more along the lines of a high end 'name your baby' site. Star Principal
may have a use for these baby sites but it is worthless for SCA research.
Polish surnames and their septs, clans and coats of arms
This is a site to sell you a coat of arms for your family that doesn't
belong to you. Such folks aren't to be trusted for SCA research data or
with your money.
Poland-Roots-L Archives on Rootsweb.com
Again, Rootsweb is a modern genealogy research site and not useful for our
Polish Roots www.polishroots.org/surnames/surnames_endings.htm
William F. Hoffman is fine for modern Polish genealogy but his books and web
sites are only a point of departure for arriving at a period Polish name.
His modern focus and post period references aren't enough for our research.
[Device] This is basically a cross patonce dismembered. The only cross
dismembered registered was 24 years ago. Liam Airlie MacRioghail O'Cadal in
May 1980 "Argent, a cross avellane dismembered within a bordure wavy azure."
This treatment is found applied to animals. I would like to see
documentation of its use with a cross in period before we register this.
The rose doesn't look overall but directly on the field if the cross is
The issues are:
Is a cross dismembered a period treatment?
If not, is it offensive under our standards?
Is the rose here considered overall or on the field?
Does a cross dismembered get a CD from a regular cross?
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