[ANSTHRLD] Heraldic Regalia

Thu Feb 5 06:36:37 PST 2004

I'm not sure if each GoOf has a badge for their office, but I would
think that you would not use the black star on group officer's
medallions, simply to avoid confusing them with Kingdom Officers. Also,
what would you do about officer's in between groups and kingdom, such as
regionals, or in a heraldic example, Pursuivant's/Herald's at large? 

Just a thought that occurred, and my two cents, though I very much like
the idea of it all.

YiS,

Ld. Jayme,

Seawinds Pursuivant

-----Original Message-----
From: heralds-bounces at ansteorra.org
[mailto:heralds-bounces at ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Jon South
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 22:03
To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.
Cc: Aleksandra von Drachenklaue; Jan Van Zandt; Anne de Bicester
Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Heraldic Regalia

My thanks for your commentary, the following links lead to 
definitions/regulations promulgated by various Kingdoms/Groups governing

"heraldic regalia".  In every case the documents state that one should 
use either the symbology of the heralds badge OR the arms of the group -

most encourage the use of the arms of the group.

West Kingdom Regalia 
<http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Handbook/iii_3-HeraldicRegalia.pdf>
Trimaris Regalia 
<http://www.trimaris.org/triskele/handbook/16-HeraldicRegalia.html>
Lochac Regalia <http://www.sca.org.au/herald/policy.html>
Outlands Regalia 
<http://www.outlandsheralds.org/White_Stag/New_Herald_Info.html>

Etienne de St. Amaranth wrote:

> I had to do a bit of research on heraldic insignia before stepping up
> as principal herald, so I'll now throw in my two-bits.  I should 
> preface this with the fact that my research on the subject is 
> certainly not complete as I was under some time constraints.  I will 
> always defer to better period documentation.
>
> That said...
>
> On one slight nitpicky point (but we are all heralds, right?), we are
> talking about heraldic insignia, and insignia of office.  "Regalia" by

> definition refers to royal insignia only.  This is a common misuse of 
> the word in the SCA (and modernly as well); but since the original 
> question was one of correctness, I thought that worth noting.
>
> The period usage for a tabard should have the arms of the armiger
> (lord/lady or, in an SCA sense, group) on all four panels.  If you 
> want to be as close to a period usage as possible, then this is the 
> model to follow.  There is some variation is cut of tabard design 
> depending on culture and time period.  One reference in the 
> Brook-Little annotated edition of Fox-Davies even mentions a waisted 
> tabard during the reign of one of the Henrys.  But the use of the arms

> on all four panels is absolutely the period approach.
>
> When heraldic colleges distinguished between Pursuivants and Heralds
> (note the capital "H"), pursuivants wore the tabard at a right angle.

> But it was still the same tabard.  I seem to recall a part of a 
> ceremony where a pursuivant became a full herald and the tabard was 
> turned to the position we are used to seeing (but I will admit I 
> cannot remember the source or its validity).
>
> The issue of impaling or quartering arms for an office is based on a
> set of firm pre-supositions:
> The office had arms of its own, independent of who held the office.
> The office's arms were ARMS and not a badge or trade symbol.
> The office holder had personal arms to which they were entitled as a 
> person.
>
> A fairly good example, though scarce, is episcopol armory from period
> where the Bishop (or higher) held a titled see with its own arms and 
> was an armiger in his own right.  Note that the impaled (or quartered)

> arms were of the individual and the office.  The bishop's herald would

> wear the arms (impaled or whatever) of the current officeholder in 
> whatever state that required.  But when the office changed holders...

> the presented arms of that bishop changed.  The arms of the bishopric 
> (the office) never changed but the arms for the current bishop might 
> be represented differently.
>
> The BADGE of the College of Arms of the SCA, Inc. is not the ARMS of
> the CoA.  If they actually were the arms of the CoA, then only the 
> Laurel King (or Queen) of Arms could bear them.  Or Laurel's herald 
> when acting in that role.  So the herald's badge does not qualify for 
> a period impaling (of arms).
>
> Now, all of that said, in a period context what is the appropriate
> context of the crossed trumpets?  I view them like a guild badge or 
> even like the sign outside of a blacksmith's shop.  If everyone who 
> sees those crossed trumpets associates them with "heralds", then they 
> have a meaning, a context, and the potential for purpose.  A banner or

> ensign with the badge outside of a consulting table or heralds' point 
> at an event will attract people looking for heralds.  A camp crier 
> heralding announcements wearing a sash with the badge will be taken 
> for a herald.  In fact, a herald's point with the badge shown will be 
> distinguished from the royal or baronial herald at an event conducting

> business of the court.  So this does have a purpose and can bring 
> about some useful functions.  Your milage may vary.
>
> When I was invested as the principal herald, part of the ceremony
> include the Crown placing a herald's tabard of the kingdom arms upon 
> me.  This was a deliberate point in the ceremony to symbolize that I 
> am, at all times, the Crown's herald with duties to the Crown and 
> kingdom.  I have on a couple of occasions used a really nice tabard 
> that I have been loaned which has the crossed trumpets but has the 
> arms of the kingdom embroidered on the sleeves.  Do I recognize that 
> this is not really the most period way to represent my office?  Yes.  
> I have occasionally used that tabard when I have heralded for someone 
> other than the Crown to specifically distinguish that I was not 
> speaking for the Crown at that moment.  (And, the embroidery is really

> nice!  See me at an event sometime and ask about it, I almost always 
> have it on-site.)  I have even used it in royal court once; but I was 
> not the primary court herald and I was distinguishing myself from that

> person.  (That last note is quite spurious though since in period and 
> even today [anyone see the funeral of Britain's Queen Mother] multiple

> heralds wore the tabard of their liege armiger while performing their 
> duties.)
>
> The 1975 listing of the allowed tabard/insignia for
> cornets/pursuivants/heralds/etc. still exists in some form.  Of 
> course, we have learned a lot since 1975 and if we want to emulate 
> period practice we can do better.
>
> Concerning collars of office for heralds:
> I am looking for documentation to justify/support it (as well as to
> offer design ideas).  If you come across some, please post to the 
> list.  All of the collar references I have found so far (with one 
> unique exception) are not heralds' collars.  I have found mayors, 
> chancellors, bishops, and pretty much anything but heralds.  I am 
> interested in examples, period examples, if they can be found.  The 
> collar of SS worn by Garter King of Arms is the one example I know, 
> though I will try to find the Order of the Golden Fleece example.  
> Beware of collars that are representative of membership in the order, 
> any member could wear that and not just the herald so those are harder

> to justify except possibly for baronies who had an order collar worn 
> by their baronial herald for the baronial service order.  And even 
> that might be a stretch.

My proposal about Collars of Office was not specifically aimed at 
Heralds, but at all office holders for a group.  The current practice of

using the symbol of office pendant from a cord tied or looped through 
the belt of the office holder just strikes me as being "sloppy".  The 
use of Collars of Office as official "regalia" for office holders at 
various governmental levels in England is period.  The collar of ss is 
addressed at Collar of SS 
<http://www02.so-net.ne.jp/%7Esaitou/cgi-bin/more.cgi?input=Collar%20of%
20SS>. 
 The mayor of Dublin wears a Collar of SS first awarded in 1660 Dublin 
<http://indigo.ie/%7Ekfinlay/Wright/wright13.htm>.  A (poor) reference 
states that chains of office go back to Duke William of Normandy Chain 
of Office <http://www.eastgwillimbury.ca/governmt/ChainofOffice.htm>. 
 If Chains/Collars of Office are found to be period a possible design 
that would be appropriate might be alternating the arms of the group 
with the Star of Ansteorra joined by rings with the symbol of office or 
the badge of office pendant in front, i.e. crossed swords for the Knight

Marshal, etc.

>
> Master Daniel has already mentioned the white batons or wands.  Those
> are usable by heralds of any rank or functions and really nice for 
> formal tournaments or pas de arms.
>
> Enough for now.  I'll check later posts and write more later if 
> needed.
>
> Etienne
> Star Principal Herald
>
>
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I will continue to research the issue of Collars/Chains of Office.

Yours,

Ivo
Acting Herald Ffynnon Gath

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