[ANSTHRLD] January Gazette ILOI - aka the Russian Gaelic ILOI

kobrien at texas.net kobrien at texas.net
Mon Feb 2 07:56:58 PST 2004


> 5) Dmitrii Rostislavich (Crossrode Keep)
> [Name] They need letters of permission to conflict for each of the relatives 
> in this letter.  Otherwise one gets registered and the others returned.  
> Rfs.VI.3. "Names Claiming Specific Relationships. - Names that unmistakably 
> imply identity with or close relationship to a protected person or literary 
> character will generally not be registered."

Per the above RfS, this is a presumption issue, not a conflict issue.  They 
need letters of permission to presume, not letters of permission to conflict.

I've got a template for a letter of permission to presume at home.  I thought 
I'd put it into an LoAR or a cover letter somewhere, but I can't find it.

I'll dig it up and post it to the list so that everyone has a copy.


> Dmitrii: Russian male given name - Wickenden 3rd ed. page 68 under Dmitrii 
> Prince Dmitrii 1262.
> Rostislavich: Russian male patronymic - son of Rostislav Wickenden 3rd ed. 
> page 299 under Rostislav gives Riurik Rostislavich from 1198.
> 
> 6) Dmitrii syn Dmitrii Rostislavich (Crossrode Keep)
> [Name] This is Dmitrii son of Dmitrii Rostislavich.  They have to enclose a 
> letter of permission to conflict.  Otherwise one gets registered and the 
> other returned.  Rfs.VI.3. "Names Claiming Specific Relationships. - Names 

Presume, not conflict.  It's done in straight alphabetical order if they're in 
the same LoI.  So, #5 would pass and #6 (and later) would bounce for 
presumption.


> 11) Fiona ní Meara (Loch Ruadh)
> [Name] Fiona is SCA compatible name "Fiona was ruled SCA compatible in April 
> of 1981 and upheld in the December 1995 cover letter." [Fiona Harpar, 11/01, 
> A-Æthelmearc] which is a weirdness.
> Meara: This name appears only as a modern spelling variant of Meadhra in 
> Woulfe.  It doesn't appear in OCM or the Irish Annals but it might be there 
> under an unknown spelling.  We registered it back in the 1980s but I would 
> like to see a firm date on the spelling.

I remember doing an explanation of the use of <ni> versus <ní>, etc. recently.  
But I can't find it easily online.  Magnus, can you see if it's in the October 
cover letter?  If so, the entire explanation will be available on the website 
soon.  (The relevant bit here is that <ní> is post-period in Gaelic.  It's a 
contraction of <inghean uí>.)


> 14) Illiria inghean mhic Ghiolla Mhaoil (Elfsea)
> [Name] Illiria: English female given name.  This is a typo and it should be 
> Illaria.
> inghean mhic: daughter of the son of April 2002 Cover Letter.
> Ghiolla Mhaoil: There aren't that many pages in Withycombe, the book isn't 
> about Gaelic names, and since we have no header there is no way of looking 
> it up.  It doesn't appear as a name in Ó Corráin, Maguire, Irish Names and 
> doesn't show up in the Annals.  Since it means servant of the devotee it 
> appears to be nonsense.  This will have to be returned unless more 
> documentation is presented.

This one is ringing a dim bell with me.  It could mean 'servant [of the] bald 
[man]'.  (<Maol> gets the meaning 'devotee' in <Maol X> names because it 
literally means 'bald' and is sometimes interpreted as 'tonsured servant'.  
<Maol> 'bald' is also found as a descriptive byname.)  But I can't find <Giolla 
Mhaoil> easily in the annals stuff I have available to me here at work.  If it 
had a large page number, maybe the original source was Woulfe not Withycombe?

Mari







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