[ANSTHRLD] Conflict checking and device help

kobrien@texas.net kobrien at texas.net
Wed Sep 15 11:05:32 PDT 2004

> Greetings to this fine list,
> I have a submitter that would like to try to register the house name
> "House of Sable Dawn"

This name has a number of problems.  

1) it does not seem to be a plausible under RfS III.2.b.iv:



iv. Household Names - Household names must follow the patterns of period names 
of organized groups of people. 

Possible models include Scottish clans (Clan Stewart ), ruling dynasties ( 
House of Anjou ), professional guilds ( Bakers Guild of Augsburg , Worshipful 
Company of Coopers ), military units ( The White Company ), and inns ( House 
of the White Hart ). 


The closest match for the desired household name would be the inn sign model.  
But there are problems with both "Sable" and "Dawn" under that model

Precedents for household names can be found in the Compiled Name Precedents at:

The problem with "Dawn" is that it is almost certainly not something you can 
draw on a medieval sign and have it be immediately recognizable.  Relevant 
precedents include:

[House Open Hearth] No documentation was given to show that Open Hearth was a 
reasonable inn or sign name. Sign names of the form <adjective> <noun> tend to 
have adjectives that can be easily displayed on a sign. "Open" is not such an 
adjective when applied to hearths. [Jared the Potter and Sajah bint Habushun 
ibn Ishandiyar al-Hajjaj, 11/99, R-Atlantia]

[Avram Ibn Gabirol. Household name for House of the Wandering Dragon] Despite 
what was stated on the LoI, Wandering Dragon, does not follow the pattern of 
inns such as House of the White Hart. A white hart could be painted on an inn 
sign and be identifiable as such, a "wandering dragon" could not. Barring 
documentation of participles of this sort being used for inn names, this must 
be returned. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR March 1998, p. 21)

The problem with "Sable" is that heraldic tinctures are no longer registerable 
in household names without benefit of the Grandfather Clause.  Relevant 
precedents include: 

[returning House of the Argent Horse] "Argent" is not a common English 
element; as an adjective referring to a color, its use is confined almost 
entirely to heraldry. English, unlike German, has no tradition of house names 
based on armory; the authentic usage would be White Horse. (Jonathan Thorne, 
9/94 p. 18)  

[I know there is a more recent precedent that this one, that upholds this 
stance, but I'd have to be at home to look it up since it's from late 2002 or 
2003 most likely.]

A plausible "inn sign" name from the image you describe would be something 
like "House of the Black Sun".

> And I am not sure how to go about finding if it would work.... any

A good place to start for "sign names" ideas is:


Hope this helps,


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