[ANSTHRLD] Conflict checking and device help
theseamus at gmail.com
Wed Sep 15 12:07:03 PDT 2004
Thanks so much that gives me a great starting point.....
On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:05:32 CDT, kobrien at texas.net <kobrien at texas.net> wrote:
> > Greetings to this fine list,
> > I have a submitter that would like to try to register the house name
> > "House of Sable Dawn"
> This name has a number of problems.
> 1) it does not seem to be a plausible under RfS III.2.b.iv:
> iv. Household Names - Household names must follow the patterns of period names
> of organized groups of people.
> Possible models include Scottish clans (Clan Stewart ), ruling dynasties (
> House of Anjou ), professional guilds ( Bakers Guild of Augsburg , Worshipful
> Company of Coopers ), military units ( The White Company ), and inns ( House
> of the White Hart ).
> The closest match for the desired household name would be the inn sign model.
> But there are problems with both "Sable" and "Dawn" under that model
> Precedents for household names can be found in the Compiled Name Precedents at:
> The problem with "Dawn" is that it is almost certainly not something you can
> draw on a medieval sign and have it be immediately recognizable. Relevant
> precedents include:
> [House Open Hearth] No documentation was given to show that Open Hearth was a
> reasonable inn or sign name. Sign names of the form <adjective> <noun> tend to
> have adjectives that can be easily displayed on a sign. "Open" is not such an
> adjective when applied to hearths. [Jared the Potter and Sajah bint Habushun
> ibn Ishandiyar al-Hajjaj, 11/99, R-Atlantia]
> [Avram Ibn Gabirol. Household name for House of the Wandering Dragon] Despite
> what was stated on the LoI, Wandering Dragon, does not follow the pattern of
> inns such as House of the White Hart. A white hart could be painted on an inn
> sign and be identifiable as such, a "wandering dragon" could not. Barring
> documentation of participles of this sort being used for inn names, this must
> be returned. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR March 1998, p. 21)
> The problem with "Sable" is that heraldic tinctures are no longer registerable
> in household names without benefit of the Grandfather Clause. Relevant
> precedents include:
> [returning House of the Argent Horse] "Argent" is not a common English
> element; as an adjective referring to a color, its use is confined almost
> entirely to heraldry. English, unlike German, has no tradition of house names
> based on armory; the authentic usage would be White Horse. (Jonathan Thorne,
> 9/94 p. 18)
> [I know there is a more recent precedent that this one, that upholds this
> stance, but I'd have to be at home to look it up since it's from late 2002 or
> 2003 most likely.]
> A plausible "inn sign" name from the image you describe would be something
> like "House of the Black Sun".
> > And I am not sure how to go about finding if it would work.... any
> A good place to start for "sign names" ideas is:
> Hope this helps,
> Heralds mailing list
> Heralds at ansteorra.org
Lord Seamus O Dubhda
Kingdom Of Anestorra
Barony Of Elfsea
"No matter where you go there you are." -B. Banzai
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