[ANSTHRLD] Name Submission

[Leslie Rose]

Wow, from working with no resources that's a lot of info.  Thanks!  I'll see 
if she won't pick an Irish first name.  Also, the accent you put on there is 
correct.  I'll have her look and see about the dates of ownership and map 
dates.  Thanks so much for your help.  I'm not very good at this but the 
shire needed someone.  So I pretty much just help people out with the 
paperwork and give suggestions when I know the answers.

>From: "Mike C. Baker / Kihe Blackeagle" <kihebard at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc." 
><heralds at ansteorra.org>
>To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc." <heralds at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Name Submission
>Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 01:12:00 -0500
>
>>> > War, Politics, and the Irish of Leinster, 1156-1606  by Emmett O'Byrne
>>> > There is a map showing the family's land holdings as well as several
>>> > different written sections on their dealings in the area.
>>> > Is this acceptable for documentation?  or do we need to look
>>> > elsewhere.
>
><SNIP>
>
>>> > Also I'm having trouble finding her given name Roxana.  Help?
>>>That's a good Greek name. Actually, it's a Greek version of a Persian 
>>>name... Not something you'd find up in Ireland, alas.
>>>-Emma
>>The names are all period spellings and the map is written as such.  The 
>>name she is looking to pass is Failain (it has an accent over the first a)
>>
>>Does she need to look for another first name or can she mix the two?
>>Catarina
>
>"Roxana F{a'}ilain" -- barring a documented form of Roxana used IN Eire and 
>WITH a Gaelic surname -- is going to most likely be at least two steps from 
>period practice ("two weirdnesses", in the previously-common SCA heraldic 
>vernacular), and thereby not registerable *as such*.
>
>(Daniel, or someone else with more recent use-knowledge had better double 
>check my use of the Da'ud notation -- and Catarina, you need to make sure I 
>have the top of the accent pointed the right direction, as I *think* I may 
>have it reversed _for Gaelic in this form_ as well as not having the 
>original in front of me...)
>
>One necessary evil in trying to match given names to the form of Failain 
>found on the map is to try to more closely determine the actual date 
>represented by the map where that spelling is found.  The range of dates 
>given in the title (1156-1606) crosses at least two boundary conditions 
>that I can think of insofar as Irish naming practices are concerned, and 
>includes times when mixing Gaelic and "foreign" names was relatively 
>unheard of AND times when that practice may have been expected (before the 
>Norse influence had been completely post-English invasion).  'Twould be far 
>better if the surname, in the desired spelling, can be found as the surname 
>of an individual within the normal text of the work _and_ that (full) name 
>is directly associated to a date or date range.
>
>If this book also has Roxana in *any* form attached to an individual with a 
>Gaelic surname pre-1600, it would go a long way toward improving the 
>chances of the submission.
>
>Note that use in a play script, novel, or other work of fiction will not be 
>acceptable documentation in and of itself -- if we can't find it in the 
>"normal" sources, I personally work under the assumed requirement of 
>finding at least three distinct individuals from a minimum of two separate 
>relatively independent sources whenever possible.  The current CoA rules 
>should be consulted if there is any doubt, of course.  (See sig-note below: 
>I'm [re-]assembling my personal reference material after a relative absence 
>from active CoH participation, and too many years of relying on works held 
>by local officers or other heralds...)
>
>Variations upon "Roxana" that have been used in the past within the SCA 
>context include Richende, possibly Rixende, and I believe even Roxanne (and 
>those are all from memory -- the last may have been accomplished using 
>mundane name allowance?).  For documented forms compatible with late-period 
>Irish Gaelic, I would suggest possibly backtracking from "Rose" / "Rosie".
>
>In what is perhaps the most well-known source for the personal feminine 
>name Roxane (French spellynge), please note that the playwright was not 
>even born until more than two centuries after 1600ce (Edmond Rostand died 
>in 1918ce, _Cyrano de Bergerac_ was written sometime between his birth and 
>that date; his birth year is uncertain according to the entry in the 1960 
>Britannica dictionary, but may have been 1869).
>
>For additional reference, note also that the "real" French soldier and poet 
>de Bergerac was born in 1619, died in 1655.
>
>Amra, formerly (***) Purs.Ext. -- working without a net or (many 
>(appropriate) ) books at hand
>
>*** I hold a dated warrant from Star Principal Herald, as a Pursuivant 
>Extraordinary.  Problem is, as I understand later developments, that it 
>does not include an end date.  And Aureliane signed it *so* nicely, too... 
><VBEG>
>
>ttfn - Mike / Pax ... Kihe / Adieu, Amra
>
>Mike C. Baker
>SCA: al-Sayyid Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra
>"Other": Reverend Kihe Blackeagle PULC (the DreamSinger Bard)
>Opinions? I'm FULL of 'em
>alt. e-mail: KiheBard at hotmail.com OR MCBaker216 at cs.com
>   Buy my writings!:   http://www.lulu.com/WizardsDen
>   http://www.livejournal.com/users/kihebard/
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