[ANSTHRLD] Name Submission

tmcd at panix.com tmcd at panix.com
Sat Jul 30 10:56:42 PDT 2005


On Sat, 30 Jul 2005, Mike C. Baker / Kihe Blackeagle <kihebard at hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Roxana F{a'}ilain" -- barring a documented form of Roxana used IN
> Eire and WITH a Gaelic surname -- is going to most likely be at
> least two steps from period practice ("two weirdnesses", in the
> previously-common SCA heraldic vernacular), and thereby not
> registerable *as such*.

Here's a recentish Laurel ruling (April 2003):

  Roxana Farabi. Name change from Anthea Maecenas.

      The submitter requested authenticity for late 1500's Persia and
      allowed no major changes.

      Roxana was documented as a modern rendering of the name of
      Alexander the Great's wife, who was Bactrian by birth and who
      died in 311 B.C. Regarding the submitted given name Roxana, the
      LoI also cited the precedent:

           While we do not find this a very likely name, since
           the stories of Alexander the Great were so popular
           during the middle ages (Alexander was one of the Nine
           Worthies), and since there is documented evidence of
           taking names from Arthuriana, we are giving the
           submitter the benefit of the doubt. (Roxanne O'Malley,
           10/96 p. 7)

      The "documented evidence of taking names from Arthuriana" is for
      Western European languages, specifically French and English, not
      Middle Eastern languages. In the case cited above, Roxanne was
      registered as an English rendering of this name used in literary
      sources. Lacking evidence of a pattern of taking names from
      literature in Middle Eastern languages, and that Roxana is a
      Middle Eastern form of this name, Roxana is not registerable as
      a Middle Eastern given name. [thus implicitly overturning the
      precedent] Siren found what seems to be a non-modernized form
      of this name:

           [T]he lady was from the general Persian area
           (Bactria). An academic website (http://
           faculty.winthrop.edu/haynese/syll/notes/331/
           PERSIA.html) gives what seems to be a non-modernized
           version of her name as <Roshanak>.

      Given this documentation, Roshanak is a feminine given name
      appropriate for 4th C B.C. Persia or Bactria. The submitted
      documentation does not address what forms of this name were used
      in period English literature. It would be those forms that would
      be registerable as English names under the literary name
      allowance.

      [surname mutterings]

      From this information, al-Farabiyya and al-Farabiyyah would be
      feminine forms of this Arabic byname appropriate for the mid-
      10th C. If the submitted byname Farabi were corrected to a
      period feminine form, then this name would combine a 10th C
      Arabic byname with a given name documented as a modern English
      rendering of a 4th C B.C. given name.

> Note that use in a play script, novel, or other work of fiction will
> not be acceptable documentation in and of itself

You can see the February 1999 LoAR Cover Letter, the section headed
"Using Names from Literary Sources", for some pointers.

In the October 2001 LoAR is one example:

  Ygraine ferch Rhun. Name and device. Or, a bend engrailed vert
  between two oak leaves bendwise gules.

    Submitted as Ygrainne ferch Rhun, the spelling Ygrainne is not
    registerable, since no documentation was presented and none could
    be found that a spelling with a double "n" is plausible.
    Therefore, we have changed it to the standard form Ygraine.

    Precedent allows registration of Arthurian names:

        Current precedent is to accept the names of significant
        characters from period Arthurian literature as there is a
        pattern of such names being used in England and France in
        period. [Bedivere de Byron, 06/99, A-Atlantia]

    As such a pattern has not been documented in Welsh, Ygraine ferch
    Rhun is registerable as a mix of an English given name and a Welsh
    byname.

So while it's generally true that literate ain't enough, an
_Arthurian_ in particular in _England or France_ is registerable
because we have evidence.

> -- if we can't find it in the "normal" sources,

... by which I assume you mean books devoted to names and their
origins, with indications of dates and with reliable spellings (not
normalized to standardized forms) ...

> I personally work under the assumed requirement of finding at least
> three distinct individuals from a minimum of two separate relatively
> independent sources whenever possible.

There is no fixed requirement like that, either at Laurel or at
kingdom.  You may choose whatever number of sources or individuals you
like for your own comfort, but your opinions will likely not match
anyone else's.

> Variations upon "Roxana" that have been used in the past within the
> SCA context include Richende, possibly Rixende,

The Richenda family is in Withycombe, derived from Old Germanic.

> and I believe even Roxanne (and those are all from memory -- the
> last may have been accomplished using mundane name allowance?).

Say, rather, an overturned precedent for that last.

Danet de Lincoln
-- 
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com



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