[ANSTHRLD] Shires and Thank Yous

tmcd@panix.com tmcd at panix.com
Sun Nov 13 13:46:37 PST 2005

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Mike C. Baker / Kihe Blackeagle
<kihebard at hotmail.com> wrote:
> The Lion of Ansteorra technically carries no precedence in the Order
> of Precedence, does not confer an AoA if the recipient doesn't
> already have one, etc.

In the last full OP I have (containing all the nice appendices),

precedence level 19 is All Other Awards of Arms (AoA, and armigerous
    awards given by foreign realms).

level 20 is Kingdom Honors, with Lion of Ansteorra, Defender of the
    Dream, along with the Rose, Bard of Ansteorra, Sable Falcon,
    Queen's Champion, et cetera.

21 is Principality Honors (Legion of Courtesy, Caid; Order of the
    Cygnet, Meridies; Queen's Order of Courtesy, *).

22 is Foreign Baronial Honors.

Every order, award, and major honorary office Ansteorra has conveys
precedence; the Lion conveys precedence (just below an AoA).  The
Lion, however, is non-armigerous: it does not convey an Award of Arms.

Realizing now that foreign baronial awards get precedence and native
ones do not, I find that annoying.


Back to the major subject, recognizing shire members for Good Things:

> (A) Write award recommendations and submit them *as individuals* (at
> least at first) to the appropriate authorities: the Crown, regional
> superiors, Kingdom superiors.

That is the Right Way To Do It for significant work.  There's the AoA,
which the king and queen can give for service, inter alia.

Note also that precedence level 18 is "Ansteorran Awards for Service
to Shires", and it contains only the Award of the Sable Comet, which
is given for, well, service to a shire.  It's more or less equivalent
to the "armigerous baronial service orders".

Or, if it's good deeds in other ways, there are other awards (Sable
Crane, for example).

Lady Prudence from Emerald Keep wrote:
] At my last shire meeting, they talked about creating an award of
] some sort to thank people for their good deeds, something far short
] of an AOA.
]   Now, from my experience in the East Kingdom, this is NOT DONE.
] That is: "a shire cannot give out awards or orders, that is reserved
] for the Crown and Baronies."  Is this correct in Ansteorra?

It's not just Ansteorra: that's correct throughout the SCA.  Corpora
says, specifically, in VIII.B.5,

    Only royalty and territorial Barons and Baronesses may bestow
    awards. If an award is established for a specific branch, only the
    royalty or Baronage of that branch may bestow the award, unless
    the power is specifically delegated in a manner consistent with
    Corpora and kingdom law and custom.

(Corpora can be downloaded via a page under <http://sca.org>.
"Royalty" is defined as including the king and queen, but also
territorial princes and princesses, which Ansteorra has never had.)

Any shire doing it would be better to stop doing it, and I'm looking
at you, Gate's Edge.  Amra's other suggestions are work very nicely
for service below the AoA level, and have the advantage of being

> (B) Give wordfame in meetings, at events attended, etc.  (B-Plus)
> Memorialize their efforts / achievements in poem, tune, tale and get
> same distributed "appropriately"
> (C) As a collection of individuals, separate from existence as
> branch officers and NOT using branch funds, give the individual it
> is desired to honor a nifty neat narfgobbler or batwangler or other
> whatsit -- accompanied by appropriate flowery words, which it is
> possible to render in the form of a scroll...

Danielis de Lincolino
"Me, I love the USA; I never miss an episode." -- Paul "Fruitbat" Sleigh
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com

More information about the Heralds mailing list