[ANSTHRLD] Conflict check please, 3rd round

[francis.schalles at ttuhsc.edu]

Resubmission for Godfrey Gauche (Bonwicke)

 

Or, three elm leaves Vert within an orle Or on a bordure Sable.

 

I hope that it is permissible to charge a bordure with an orle, which would
be 2 CD's now and,

the leaves are defined as elm, a distinctly recognized leaf.

 

Troye

 

 

Last msg on Jan 27, 2006 

August 2002 ILoI  

 

http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ICC/ <http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ICC/> 

 

 

  10. Godfrey Gauche (Bonwicke)

    New name. New device. Or, three leaves vert.

 

    Returned for conflict with Tamara iz Kiev [July 1974]: "Argent,

    three birch leaves vert."  [Magnus wrote, "There is a CD for the

    field but Godfrey's leaves are identical to birch leaves."]

 

> New pattern, added Sable bordure:

> Or, three leaves vert within a bordure Sable

> Field of Or, black bordure around the outside, three green leaves 

> inside of the bordure.

 

 

What sort of leaves?  In commentary before the previous return, Da'ud wrote

    What type of leaves are these? They are nothing particularly like

    the default SCA (usually an aspen) or heraldic (usually an oak)

    "leaf".

Da'ud appears to be in error: aspen leaves are broad (rather like a spade on
a playing card), but the Pic Dic says that generic leaves are

narrower: no serrated edges, oval, with pointed tips, like
<http://biodiversity.sci.kagoshima-u.ac.jp/suzuki/halimun/plant/leaf/dscn096
2s.jpg
<http://biodiversity.sci.kagoshima-u.ac.jp/suzuki/halimun/plant/leaf/dscn096
2s.jpg> >

The previous depiction is at

<http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ILoI/iloi200208.pdf
<http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ILoI/iloi200208.pdf> >: so these were leaves
with curls at the tips.

 

Versus

    Josquin du Bois Vert (7503), Or, a dogwood blossom [Cornus

    florida] upon a whorl of three of its leaves, proper.

Looking at Josquin's device form: the "whorl" is three leaves in pall one
and two, so one CD for arrangement and one CD for the bordure -- clear.

 

    Hollen of Kestrelmere (8312S) Or, a holly sprig of three leaves in

    pall vert and three berries conjoined at the center, one and two,

    gules, within a bordure pean.

One CD for holly versus normal leaf, one CD for arrangement, one CD for
tincture of the bordure.

 

Consider

    Wulf Beornsson (8902X) Or, a sprig of three poison ivy leaves

    inverted vert within a bordure sable.

The leaves in Wulf's are arranged

    / \

     |

so I think there is likely a CD for that, but I'm not 100% sure.  But the
stem is tiny, so there's no possibility of a CD for that bit.

There's this precedent from Francois's regular tenure:

 

    [Three linden leaves conjoined in pall inverted] Conflict with

    David the Ironlivered, Azure, a sprig of three poison oak leaves

    sable, veined and fimbriated argent. There is one CD for

    fieldlessness. The sprig in David's device consists of three

    oval-shaped leaflets, one to chief, one to dexter and one to

    sinister, with a slip issuant to base. ...

 

    There might be a CD for the type difference between an oval-shaped

    leaf and a card-pique shaped linden leaf when the leaves are used

    as single charges.  However, the conjoining of the leaves into

    near-identical sprigs diminishes the visual difference too much

    for there to be a type CD given between them.  [Emelyne le Tresor,

    01/03, R-Æthelmearc]

 

In Wulf's case, the leaves are more irregular: asymmetric, with noticable
notches and some serrations.  I would not like to bet money (either for
conflict or no) on the comparison between Godfrey and Wulf's designs.

 

Maybe clear of

    Caerthe, Barony of (9210O) Or, a triskelion of aspen leaves

    conjoined at the stems vert within a bordure embattled sable.

1 clear CD for type for the bordure.  Maybe one CD for orientation of the
leaves ... if it weren't for the fact that aspen leaves are not that far
from circular.  Again, it's iffy.

 

Clear of

    West, Kingdom of the (8905W) Or, three acorns in pall, caps to

    center, between three oak leaves in pall inverted, all within a

    bordure vert.  (For the Pages School)

 

3 CDs from

    Yoshikuri Nagayori (0407m) Argent, three maple leaves in pall

    stems outward within a bordure sable.

(field, orientation, type)

 

Troye de Leon

Western Cross Pursuivant Herald,

Barony of Bonwicke. 

 

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