[ANSTHRLD] Conflict check please, 3rd round
francis.schalles at ttuhsc.edu
francis.schalles at ttuhsc.edu
Fri Feb 10 09:24:11 PST 2006
Resubmission for Godfrey Gauche (Bonwicke)
Or, three elm leaves Vert within an orle Or on a bordure Sable.
I hope that it is permissible to charge a bordure with an orle, which would
be 2 CD's now and,
the leaves are defined as elm, a distinctly recognized leaf.
Troye
Last msg on Jan 27, 2006
August 2002 ILoI
http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ICC/ <http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ICC/>
10. Godfrey Gauche (Bonwicke)
New name. New device. Or, three leaves vert.
Returned for conflict with Tamara iz Kiev [July 1974]: "Argent,
three birch leaves vert." [Magnus wrote, "There is a CD for the
field but Godfrey's leaves are identical to birch leaves."]
> New pattern, added Sable bordure:
> Or, three leaves vert within a bordure Sable
> Field of Or, black bordure around the outside, three green leaves
> inside of the bordure.
What sort of leaves? In commentary before the previous return, Da'ud wrote
What type of leaves are these? They are nothing particularly like
the default SCA (usually an aspen) or heraldic (usually an oak)
"leaf".
Da'ud appears to be in error: aspen leaves are broad (rather like a spade on
a playing card), but the Pic Dic says that generic leaves are
narrower: no serrated edges, oval, with pointed tips, like
<http://biodiversity.sci.kagoshima-u.ac.jp/suzuki/halimun/plant/leaf/dscn096
2s.jpg
<http://biodiversity.sci.kagoshima-u.ac.jp/suzuki/halimun/plant/leaf/dscn096
2s.jpg> >
The previous depiction is at
<http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ILoI/iloi200208.pdf
<http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ILoI/iloi200208.pdf> >: so these were leaves
with curls at the tips.
Versus
Josquin du Bois Vert (7503), Or, a dogwood blossom [Cornus
florida] upon a whorl of three of its leaves, proper.
Looking at Josquin's device form: the "whorl" is three leaves in pall one
and two, so one CD for arrangement and one CD for the bordure -- clear.
Hollen of Kestrelmere (8312S) Or, a holly sprig of three leaves in
pall vert and three berries conjoined at the center, one and two,
gules, within a bordure pean.
One CD for holly versus normal leaf, one CD for arrangement, one CD for
tincture of the bordure.
Consider
Wulf Beornsson (8902X) Or, a sprig of three poison ivy leaves
inverted vert within a bordure sable.
The leaves in Wulf's are arranged
/ \
|
so I think there is likely a CD for that, but I'm not 100% sure. But the
stem is tiny, so there's no possibility of a CD for that bit.
There's this precedent from Francois's regular tenure:
[Three linden leaves conjoined in pall inverted] Conflict with
David the Ironlivered, Azure, a sprig of three poison oak leaves
sable, veined and fimbriated argent. There is one CD for
fieldlessness. The sprig in David's device consists of three
oval-shaped leaflets, one to chief, one to dexter and one to
sinister, with a slip issuant to base. ...
There might be a CD for the type difference between an oval-shaped
leaf and a card-pique shaped linden leaf when the leaves are used
as single charges. However, the conjoining of the leaves into
near-identical sprigs diminishes the visual difference too much
for there to be a type CD given between them. [Emelyne le Tresor,
01/03, R-Æthelmearc]
In Wulf's case, the leaves are more irregular: asymmetric, with noticable
notches and some serrations. I would not like to bet money (either for
conflict or no) on the comparison between Godfrey and Wulf's designs.
Maybe clear of
Caerthe, Barony of (9210O) Or, a triskelion of aspen leaves
conjoined at the stems vert within a bordure embattled sable.
1 clear CD for type for the bordure. Maybe one CD for orientation of the
leaves ... if it weren't for the fact that aspen leaves are not that far
from circular. Again, it's iffy.
Clear of
West, Kingdom of the (8905W) Or, three acorns in pall, caps to
center, between three oak leaves in pall inverted, all within a
bordure vert. (For the Pages School)
3 CDs from
Yoshikuri Nagayori (0407m) Argent, three maple leaves in pall
stems outward within a bordure sable.
(field, orientation, type)
Troye de Leon
Western Cross Pursuivant Herald,
Barony of Bonwicke.
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