[ANSTHRLD] Assistance needed

tmcd@panix.com tmcd at panix.com
Tue Jan 24 13:56:19 PST 2006

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Alasdair MacEogan <alasdair at bmhanson.net> wrote:
> francis.schalles at ttuhsc.edu wrote:
> >  My Lord Baron, His Excellency, Kainin Tepesa, of the Barony of
> >  Bonwicke, has related to me that in the past he has attempted to
> >  register his byname "Tepesa", and it has been found offensive by
> >  the College. Does anyone remember the reason? And, if so can you
> >  point me to some suitable alternative names that I might pursue?
> What information can you give to aid the search?  When was this
> decided?  Was it sent back from Kingdom or Laurel?  Where was it
> submitted?
> More information would be helpful in trying to track the information
> down.

Indeed, that's important for tracking, as well as: does he have some
other registered name?

Further questions occur to me about getting what he wants: what
languages / cultures / time periods are the name elements?  Does he
have any sources, or any other information about them?

There are at least a few things that can be searched as a preliminary
measure for at least getting the submission history.

The Armorial raw file can be downloaded from
<http://www.sca.org/heraldry/OandA/oanda.bz2> or
<http://www.sca.org/heraldry/OandA/oanda.gz> or
<http://www.sca.org/heraldry/OandA/oanda> (depending on whether you
have bzip2, gzip, or neither).  There is no occurrence of "Tep" or

You can append text at the end of the search box at
<http://www.morsulus.org/> to search LoARs.  That's a broader search
than the Armorial, because it also lists returns, and it gives reasons
for returns.  No occurrences of "Kainin" or "Tepesa".
    9/88 LoAR, Calontir returns:
        Vladislav de Bucharest. Name only. By the submittor's own
        documentation Bucharest (now capital of Rumania) was capital
        of Walachia, the area ruled by among others Vladislav II who
        was slain and supplanted by Vlad Tepes (a.k.a. Vlad the
        Impaler or Dracula).
    3/90, Ansteorran acceptances:
        Vladimir Carpatii. Name only. This name made us very nervous,
        given the fact that the Carpathian mountains are one of the
        boundaries of the territory ruled by Vlad Tepes (a.k.a Vlad
        the Impaler or Dracula). It would be highly advisable for him
        to avoid any allusive references (reremice, for example) in
        his armoury.
    (Not sure why one was registered and not the other.)

Ansteorra submissions can be looked up via the Ansteorran Heraldic
Submissions Tracker at <http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/hst/>.  For the
years that it has data, this has a broader yet net than LoARs, because
it covers kingdom returns.  But that time period is just January
1993-January 2006. In the "all the names" file (774 KB), no hits for
"Kain" or "Tep".

So I got nuthin'.

As for why it might be "offensive": given that we don't have any data
about a return, most especially not a return text, I don't want to
speculate.  A lot of people, heralds and non-heralds alike,
misunderstand or misremember heraldic decisions.

I Googled for "Vlada Tepesa" and got LOTS of hits in what looks to me
like some Central European language, often as "Vlada Tepe{sv}a" (that
is, with an "s" with an inverted circumflex (upside-down ^) above it).
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_III_Dracula> lists his name in
Romanian as "Vlad {T,}epe{s,}", and

    His post-mortem moniker of {T,}epe{s,} (Impaler) originated in his
    preferred method for executing his opponents, impalement,
    popularized by medieval Transylvanian brochures.

Given that 15 (counting charitably) of the first 100 Google hits for
"Tepes" do *not* refer to Dracula, the byname may have been unique in
Romanian to Vladimir III in period.  Or Romanian for "the Impaler"
might indeed be deemed offensive.

Or Kainin Tepesa might not be Romanian at all -- I see some
Finnish-language hits for "Tepesa", and "Kainin" looks vaguely
Finnish.  Hence my questions about what language / culture / time

Denyel de Lincoln
"Me, I love the USA; I never miss an episode." -- Paul "Fruitbat" Sleigh
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com

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