[ANSTHRLD] Name conflict question

[tmcd at panix.com]

On Fri, 5 May 2006, Steve K. Rourke <steverourke at charter.net> wrote:
> I am helping someone who is trying to clear a conflict with her
> chosen name.

Standard plea: details, please.  We can verify the return and see
whether your suggestion (y gof) creates any new problems.

> The ruling from Laurel is "Conflict with Katherin verch Rhys,
> registered October 2003. Katherin and Catlin are variants of the
> same name, and when pronounced properly differ by only a single
> sound in the middle of the name."

That is enough to find the exact return in the November 2004 LoAR,
Ansteorran returns:

  Catrin ferch Rhys. Name.

      Conflict with Katherin verch Rhys, registered October 2003.
      Katherin and Catlin are variants of the same name, and when
      pronounced properly differ by only a single sound in the middle
      of the name.

> Would the addition of the phrase "y gof" meaning "the smith" to the
> patronymic name be enough to clear the conflict?

"Use the source."  RfS V has the Name Conflict rules.  RfS V.1 is
Personal Names, and RfS V.2 is Non-Personal Names ("Branch names,
order and award names, heraldic titles, and household names"), so
RfS V.1 is the one we need for this case.

RfS V.1.b:

    b. Conflict of Personal Names - Two personal names conflict
       *unless* at least one of the following conditions is met:

       i. Given Names ... OK, not applicable.

       ii. Number of Name Phrases - A personal name containing at most
           two name phrases does not conflict with any personal name
           containing a different number of name phrases.

           "Thora Arnthorudottir" does not conflict with "Thora in
           spaka Arnthorudottir"; "Pedro Fernandez" does not conflict
           with "Pedro Fernandez Perez".

Katherin verch Rhys: at most two name phrases:
    1: Katherin
    2: verch Rhys

Catrin ferch Rhys y gof: three name phrases:
    1: Catrin
    2: ferch Rhys
    3: y gof

So, unless I gravely misunderstand "name phrase", they're clear.

However, I don't know how Welsh names are constructed to know whether
"Catrin ferch Rhys y gof" is registerable.  Possible problems could
include any of these, for the little I know:
- maybe they didn't add attributes to a patronymic
- maybe the particular word "gof" was not used (perhaps another word
  was used instead in names as opposed to normal language)
- maybe the attribute doesn't use "y" (Rhys Smith rather than
  Rhys the Smith)
- maybe the attribute "gof" has to mutate
- maybe the spellings of the parts are dated far enough apart to cause
  problems
Sorry that I can't help with that easily, though the articles in the
Medieval Names Archives at the Academy of Saint Gabriel may have
useful data.

Dankyn de Linccolne
-- 
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com