[ANSTHRLD] Questions about clearing conflicts

[tmcd at panix.com]

Rearranging text to follow causality in this universe and to trim
unneeded text (there's no reason to quote the standard list signature
three times!):

Luciana Caterina di Borgese <dolce.luce at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a submission that was returned for multiple
> conflicts. The blazon is:
>     Azure, a swan naiant and in chief a mullet argent
> It was found to conflict with Arianwen of the Tuntlewald, July 1071
That's July 1971.
>     Azure, a swan argent, beaked and membered Or, within eight
>     mullets in annulo argent
> and also with Sheryl of Thespis, January 1973
>     Azure, a swan naiant argent crowned Or
>
> Wouldn't adding a bordure clear these two conflicts?

On 11/6/06, Bill Butler <chemistbb3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I don't think so for the second because of the swan posture
> (naiant).

How does the position of the swan affect a CD for a bordure?

The comparison is
     Azure, a swan naiant argent crowned Or
versus
     Azure, a swan naiant and in chief a mullet argent,
     within a bordure [tincture]

The mullet is one charge group on the field.  The bordure is a second
charge group on the field.  Therefore 2 CDs for adding two groups of
charges on the field (RfS X.4.b).  Clear.  The crown is likely not a
CD, but we don't have to bother considering it.

> As for the first, I can not remember what the default position is
> for a swan,

I don't remember many default postures either, which is why I
immediately went to the CoA Glossary of Terms at
http://sca.org/heraldry/coagloss.html (actually, I downloaded my own
copy long ago).

> but I would be suprised if it was not naiant.

The default posture of a swan is rousant.

> But even if it is standing, I think the profile would be too similar
> to naiant, since the legs and feet would be somewhat difficult to
> distinguish.

That would likely be true, but it doesn't matter in this case.

     Azure, a swan [rousant] argent, beaked and membered Or, within
     eight mullets in annulo argent
versus
     Azure, a swan naiant and in chief a mullet argent,
     within a bordure [tincture]

The proposed design has two secondary charge groups, while the
original has only one, so there has to be a CD for adding the bordure,
as above.  RfS X.4.f, Number Changes, says "One, two, and three are
significantly different from any number", so there's a second CD for
changing the number of mullets from 8 to 1.  There's a third CD for
changing the posture of the swan -- which is to say, the original
conflict call was incorrect and the original designs were clear in the
first place.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Luciana Caterina di Borgese <dolce.luce at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yanno.....it boggles the mind at times. Here is a returned
> submission, that conflicted with two other devices, but when I look
> at the two devices, they look like they conflict with each other!

     Azure, a swan [rousant] argent, beaked and membered Or, within
     eight mullets in annulo argent
versus
     Azure, a swan naiant argent crowned Or
1 CD for posture of the primary charge group (RfS X.4.h, Posture
Changes).  1 CD for addition/removal of a group of charges (the
stars).  They were clear, had they been considered under the current
rules.

Which they weren't: the current rules came into full effect in May
1990, and these designs were registered in the early 1970s.  The rules
then were "Do we think they look different enough?  If no, insult the
new submitter and tell her to make some changes".

Denyel de Linccolne
-- 
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com